Magus Feedback and Proposal

Have an idea for a new skill? How about a proposed change the way something works? Suggest it here!

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Kiel Reid
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Magus Feedback and Proposal

Post by Kiel Reid »

I said I would do this and I finally got a chance so here we go! I encourage everyone to do the same.

I feel as though the Magus has some potential but overall detracted from the game.

Here is where I feel Magus was fun

Introduction of Scrolls - I thought this was neat. However I would like to see these usable by only Magus characters with no Essence cost. Also some spells being scroll exclusive seemed appropriate. More on that later.

Spell Variants - Having improved versions of spells was great. It made it so you could minimize the amount of spells in the game but still get better effects.

Trying everything - I will say that this incarnation really let you try out a ton of stuff and really see what worked and what didn't. There was teleportation, walls and all kinds of other weird effects.

Here was where I feel Magus had opportunities


Variable Spell Casting Times - Far too confusing. Chart based which makes it even more cumbersome.

Game Stops - Far too many are achievable in a short period of time. On top of that they can become extremely long due to overly complex mechanics.

Poor Spell Wording - Is the spell a talisman? What are two stationary objects?

Essence sharing - This is great for big spells but got downright silly in combat, especially since all the Magus's had Ritual Casting.

Spell Items - We passed them back and forth in combat. It was terrible and there was zero risk. Also creating all those tags was a strain on game staff time that could be better used running plots, creating props, sleeping, etc

Where do I feel it can be improved?

To be frank almost everywhere. This path failed to add mystique to the primary mage path, slowed combat to a crawl and was generally abused throughout the year.

Here is the new version I would like to propose. There will also be a new proposed spell list. 10 of each tier, 6 which can be overcast. Basic take 1 minute and 2 essence, Advanced take 2 minutes and 4 essence. Master take 4 minutes and 8 essence. Magus is not quick and dirty, that is Empath.

Scrolls – Only usable by Magus’s with the appropriate Cast Spell ability. No essence cost or components required and cannot be overcast. Phys rep required. 6”x4” minimum.

Spell items – Require attunement. Usable by anyone. Can be destroyed to cast without appropriate components.

Basic

Cast Basic Spell – This skill grants you the ability to cast Basic Magus Spells (Pg. XXX). When you gain this ability you learn 3 Basic Spells from the book.

Gain Essence – This skill increases your maximum essence score by one.

Detect Magic – As per Empath. If you have it twice reduce time by 50%.

Armored Magus – This skill grants you the ability to where Light Armor with no penalty to Magus skills.

*Memorize Spell – This skill grants you the ability to destroy a spell item to memorize a spell with a 15 minute count. Memorized spells can be cast as though you had the spell item attuned. You can also transfer a spell you know to another Magus who is capable of casting the spell, provided they can cast it, with a 15 minute count. Unlearning spells can also be done in 15 minutes. You may memorize as many spells as your permanent essence score.

*Spell Bolt – This skill grants you the ability to throw “5 Magic” by spending one essence. This skill has a 10 second Cooldown.

*Spell Research – This skill grants you the ability to learn additional spells. It takes one event to learn Basic spells, two events for Advanced spells and three events for Master spells. This cannot be combined with Research from Sage. If you have this skill twice you can learn two basic spells in one event, advanced spells in one event and master spells in two events.

Advanced

Talismonger – This skill grants you two Spell Components of your choice at game on.

Arcane Regeneration – This skill grants you the ability to regain two Essence Points with a one minute passive count.

Cast Advanced Spell – This skill grants you the ability to cast Advanced Magus Spells (Pg. XXX). When you gain this ability you learn 2 Advanced Spells from the book.

Artificer – This skill grants you the ability to attune up to five spell items. These spell items do not take up attunement slots. Each item must be attuned and unattuned individually.

*Create Scroll – This skill grants you the ability to create scrolls by expending the components normally required to cast the spell after a 1 hour active count. You can only create scrolls for spells you have memorized. See page XXX for more information on scrolls.

*Eschew Materials – This skill grants you the ability to cast spells without destroying the spell components required.

Master

Cast Master Spell – This skill grants you the ability to cast Master Magus Spells (Pg. XXX). When you gain this ability you learn 1 Master Spell from the book.

Specialized Spell – This skill grants you the ability to cast one Basic, Advanced and Master spell in half the time and at half the Essence cost rounded up. You choose the spells at the beginning of each event. If a spell is lost the specialization cannot be transferred to a new spell.

Overcasting – This skill grants you the ability to double the amount of essence and time required to cast a spell to use the Overcast version.

Gain Essence – This skill increases your maximum essence score by two.

*Create Spell Item – This skill grants you the ability to copy a spell item you have attuned or create a new item if you have the spell memorized. This requires five times the components required to cast the spell and 2 hours to complete.

*Counterspell – This skill grants you the ability to counter a gamestop spell by spending 4 essence if you have the ability to cast that spell. Some spells cannot be countered. This ability has a 10 minute reload.

Advanced Abilities

Basic

Memorize Spell – Double the amount of spells you are capable of memorizing.

Spell Bolt – This ability no longer has a cooldown.

Advanced

Arcane Regeneration – You gain an additional two essence when using this skill.

Talismonger – You gain an additional 3 spell components of your choice.

Master

Over casting – You can double either time or essence to overcast.

Counterspell – You do not need to know the spell to counter.
Last edited by Kiel Reid on Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vivac
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Re: Magus Feedback anf Proposal

Post by Vivac »

I agree with your feedback and feel that these skills fit the path. It all looks reasonably balanced too. I like this much better than magus as it is now.
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Ark
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Re: Magus Feedback anf Proposal

Post by Ark »

Sup Kiel

I agree with your assessment and proposal for scrolls, I know a lot of people wanted some kind of scroll system and it gives the GM's a way to introduce interesting one off spells without destroying game balance (like what they started trying to do with the one off magic items) on the other hand one off effects annoy me because nobody ever wants to use em. . .because then there gone ya'know :(

I was not a fan of the "anyone can do spells" approach they tried to take with this system, and that led to problems within the game and path:

- it forced the GM's to add a BUTTLOAD of artificial restrictions onto the spells and then all Magus seemed to do was remove those restrictions.
- it added a massive amount of new tags to the game in the form of individually named and tagged spell components, and truth be told I don't even know what mystic does anymore.
- on topic of spell components. it seemed the premier spell caster class didn't even need them? it just seemed weird to me that casters needed spell components the least.
- my time playing a Wizard back in the day when it was a thing was a mixed bag, I didn't like that it felt like I didn't have a path the majority of the time because of HUGE cooldowns and what not, but I did like that Wizards were the only ones that could do the things that they did, and that the fact that anyone can cast spells in this new system really removed a lot of the magic from playing a magus :(

I do like the inclusion of essence as a cost mechanic but agree that essence sharing went kinda sideways, people just ended up being used as batteries.

I'm hesitant on your suggestion of:
-spell research: like research this is very open ended and subject for abuse, especially once people figure out the "formula" for spells, you also get into the problem we had with Arcane back in the day of the sheer amount of power and versatility casters start to have at there disposal, I think Arcane got up to over 50 individual spells before it got the axe, and it was a discipline O_o
-create scroll, this lets casters pretty much stockpile spell use in there downtime, and then spooge them all at the first sign of combat, not a fan.
-create spell item, you can probably guess my thoughts on this one, not a fan.

I did play an Arcane and a Wizard back when they were a thing but the lack of uniqueness of the new Magus because everyone can do spells and the improvements to some other paths just kept me away from this one. I would simply like to see Wizard brought back now with essence points so the cooldowns are not so extreme and the inclusion of a scroll system.
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
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Kiel Reid
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Re: Magus Feedback anf Proposal

Post by Kiel Reid »

I should clarify. Spell research just allows you to learn the spells already in the book. There are no spells beyond what is available there, which will be 30.

Scroll and Spell Item creation creates an expenditure for Magus. Also it adds to immersion to see Magus's creating scrolls and spell items on the field.

If were up to me Essence points would be removed from the game. They just add another layer of complexity with minimal benefit.
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Re: Magus Feedback anf Proposal

Post by Ark »

oh well that clarification is much better and yeah that's fine, open ended systems are the bane of balanced gameplay.

Magus does not require an expenditure, its not a crafting discipline like craftsman or alchemist, and the latter is one of the most broken systems this game has because they are like scrolls in that they are stored power to be used at the users discretion. and I will fight to the death against anything that tries to replicate it. there is a reason systems like that are starting to disappear.

while essence points could have simply been life points I appreciate that they introduced a new cost mechanic, its similar to action points if I recall correctly. because as it stood FH had only two methods of managing ability cost and it was time or life points, one is boring and inflexible and the other is directly related to your characters life. because it sucks playing a warrior and all your skills cost life points, hey I need that life to be up here and do warrior things in the first place. as for time its just not reasonable a lot of the time, essence points in effect give the ability for Magus to burst its spells before going on cooldown, instead of putting a cooldown after every spell.

I'm sure you know this obviously but I will explain more in depth for anyone else reading: DISCLAIMER this is an example not how it works in FH

say a spell has a cooldown of 20 minutes (there has been worse) and so over the course of an hour you could cast 3 spells. the problem is encounters (for sake of this example) don't last an hour, they last about 15 minute. so a Magus can only do 1 spell per encounter.
now with essence points say you have 6, each spell costs 2 essence points and has a 5 minute cooldown, but your essence points take like 45 minutes to regen. you can get off the same 3 spells per encounter but you can get them all off within 15 minutes (10 if you calculate the cooldown as N-1) this allows for a more flexible casting system

yes it could be life points, but I prefer the pseudo action points that are essence points. it also allows the inclusion of things like the burn skills that target specific targets. as well as making it so you can stop a caster from casting without dropping them into negs.
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
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Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
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Re: Magus Feedback anf Proposal

Post by Kiel Reid »

Couple of things you will notice here.

Spell components should be balanced. This means they should all have equal applicability. These spells have been designed that way with a little nod to the component.

Enhancements take the buff slot. Sustained spells are spells a caster can only have one active of at a time. As an example you cannot have Rise of the Phoenix active at the same time as Phantom Weapon.

10 of each tier, 5 which can be overcast, 2 which are enhancement (Exception Basic). Basic take 1 minute and 2 essence, Advanced take 2 minutes and 4 essence. Master take 4 minutes and 6 essence. Slight adjustment on Master.

1 Component for Basic, 3 for Advanced and 5 for Master.

These are general wordings to understand the concept because the actual wording would need to be tight.

Basic

Phantom Weapon (Fire/Overcast/Sustained) – Create a weapon of your choice. Overcast: Add “Magic” to damage dealt with weapon. Destroy it to swing 5 Magic.

Powerful Blow (Fire/Enhancement) – Add +2 to weapon/fist strike of your choice. This enhancement is then expended.

Minor Protection (Clay/Enhancement) - +2 Temporary Combat Reflexes

Telekinesis (Clay/Overcast) – Throw “Magic Press”. Overcast: “4 Magic Press”

Destroy Corpse (Dark)- Completely destroy a corpse. Gear is unaffected.

Terror (Dark/Overcast) – Throw “Magic Fear”. Overcast: “Lash Magic Fear”

Share Power (Spirit/Enhancement): Grant target a “Resist” you possess. Target must spend 2 LP to activate.

Trade Life (Spirit/Overcast): Caster and Willing/Incapacitated target and you trade LP totals, up to max. Overcast: You do not need to be one of the target.

Speak with Animals (Pixie/Sustained): Speak with animals normally for 5 minutes.

Water Breathing (Pixie/Overcast): You gain the ability to breath and act underwater normally for 1 hour. Overcast: You can also target 5 other individuals. This is not considered an enchantment.

Advanced

Flame Strike (Fire/Overcast) – Throw 5 Magic Vorpal. Overcast: Throw 8 Magic Vorpal.

Flame Burst (Fire) – 5 Magic Lash.

Stoneskin (Clay/Enhancement) – Your Essence is brought to 0. You gain an equal amount of Combat Reflexes.

Boulder Throw (Clay/Overcast)- Throw 5 Magic Crush. Overcast: Throw 8 Magic Crush.

Create Undead (Dark/Overcast/Sustained) – Create Skeletons or Zombies. Overcast: Create Wraiths or Ghouls.

Poison (Dark)- Throw “Magic Poison”.

Spark the Spirit (Spirit/Overcast) – As per book. Overcast: Caster may elect to be the one who dies if the resurrection process fails, allowing the resurrection to continue and the red chip returned to the bag.

Recovery (Spirit/Enhancement) – The target is brought to one life point when their bleed out time is completed.

Message (Pixie/Overcast) – Send a message via magic to a recipient you have a piece of (Hair, nail etc). Overcast: They can send a short (10 seconds) message back.

Dominate (Pixie/Overcast/Sustained): As per Dominate Monster: Overcast: Throw “Magic Charm: Protect me to the best of your ability.”

Master

Attack of the Elements (Fire/Overcast): As per book. Overcast: Triangulated.

Flame Storm (Fire/Sustained): As per book.

Meteor Drop (Clay/Overcast): Game Stop. Indicate a target. 15 Magic. Overcast: Also effects everyone within 10 feet of target.

Fortify Armor (Clay/Enhancement): Each piece of armor the target is considered 1 point higher. These additional points do not count towards the targets armor point total for determining the amount of armor they can wear.

Atrophy (Dark)- Game Stop. Line Effect. All targets have their current LP reduced by half rounded up. This is considered a Magic Poison effect.

Speak With Dead
(Dark/Overcast): Ask a dead target a question which they must answer in one word, When this is done the targets chip draw is increased by one. A target cannot be effected by this skill if they cannot be resurrected normally. This spell cannot be cast on a target more than once per event. Overcast: Ask up to three questions.

Destroy Undead
(Spirit/Overcast): Game Stop. Line “Magic Banish”. Overcast: Triangulated.

Rise of the Phoenix
(Spirit/Sustained): As per book but only “Lash Taunt”.

Displace Time (Pixie): As per book.

Counter (Pixie/Enhancement/Overcast): The target can swing/throw any non-game stop effect they were hit with, within 5 seconds, expending this enhancement. This does not stop the effect. Overcast: If the effect has a number the damage dealt to you is reduced by half.
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Re: Magus Feedback and Proposal

Post by Ark »

Daaawwwww, you got me Kiel, you know I like this kind of Mage :3

aside from tiny tweaks or not liking a spell or two (okay when there are this many) I obviously like it. I also like that there are only a few big game stop spells but still LOTS of spells that can be cast and be effective and helpful without incurring a game stop. and unless I'm mistaken, only your caster can cast these and not every fricken player (+1 for being special)
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
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