warrior skill ideas and changes
Moderator: Admin
my thoughts after looking over all of warrior
basic
-determination: no change
-CR: no change
-vigor: no change
-hold ground: bonus life lowered to 2, allowed to walk, when you leave hold ground you are at 1 life not 0.
advanced
-endurance: meh
-CR: no change
-defensive matrix: any melee attack to the front has "1" added to its call, costs 1 life point to enter and a 5 count to exit.
-sure footed: no change, armor restriction is good
master
-CR: maybe ICR 3 instead of 2
-fortitude: no change
-parry avoid blow: no change
-rage: cost and benifit stay the same, allow the use of life point activated skill, continue to negate the use of charge up, cooldown, or reload related skills. remove weapon spec from the game completly
there, more of there skills work with each other, warriors remain best if fighting in the front, completly screwed if hit in the back, can swing 2 reasonably. can mitigate alot of frontal damage but never take nothing, etc. also make hold ground, defensive matrix, and rage all "stances" and you may only have one stance active at a time.
basic
-determination: no change
-CR: no change
-vigor: no change
-hold ground: bonus life lowered to 2, allowed to walk, when you leave hold ground you are at 1 life not 0.
advanced
-endurance: meh
-CR: no change
-defensive matrix: any melee attack to the front has "1" added to its call, costs 1 life point to enter and a 5 count to exit.
-sure footed: no change, armor restriction is good
master
-CR: maybe ICR 3 instead of 2
-fortitude: no change
-parry avoid blow: no change
-rage: cost and benifit stay the same, allow the use of life point activated skill, continue to negate the use of charge up, cooldown, or reload related skills. remove weapon spec from the game completly
there, more of there skills work with each other, warriors remain best if fighting in the front, completly screwed if hit in the back, can swing 2 reasonably. can mitigate alot of frontal damage but never take nothing, etc. also make hold ground, defensive matrix, and rage all "stances" and you may only have one stance active at a time.
Last edited by Ark on Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
obviously you never saw the rules this game had before what it is now
ALOT has changed over the years, i found some orignal rule drafts and i can tell you that
also if you see my sig you will notice i want some stuff lowered back to its original place.
ALOT has changed over the years, i found some orignal rule drafts and i can tell you that
also if you see my sig you will notice i want some stuff lowered back to its original place.
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
Assumtion 1 : the better fighter wins no matter what.
lets assume two swings a second. Dual weapon doesn't matter because you can't swing faster than you can count.
a base of 2 DPS for everyone on the field. Defensive matrix all in coming damage by 2 dps. AT LEAST.
warriors can up that to 4. Double that of everyone else.
Warriors can ip that to 6.
That's six DPS, come hell or high water. it is not interuptable. it can move. it can follow you.
empaths can do burst damage of .5 DPS. (30 damage over a minute.) Yes it is a lot but RAW numbers it still is MUCH lower.
Rogue does .8
Even if you factor a 99.99% of NOT getting interrupted they still lose.
Rogue hits warrior, warrior hits rogue. Rogue runs, warrior runs and hits rogue. If they are equally physically competent, then warriors keeps following.
We had four, and it was a problem.
lets assume two swings a second. Dual weapon doesn't matter because you can't swing faster than you can count.
a base of 2 DPS for everyone on the field. Defensive matrix all in coming damage by 2 dps. AT LEAST.
warriors can up that to 4. Double that of everyone else.
Warriors can ip that to 6.
That's six DPS, come hell or high water. it is not interuptable. it can move. it can follow you.
empaths can do burst damage of .5 DPS. (30 damage over a minute.) Yes it is a lot but RAW numbers it still is MUCH lower.
Rogue does .8
Even if you factor a 99.99% of NOT getting interrupted they still lose.
Rogue hits warrior, warrior hits rogue. Rogue runs, warrior runs and hits rogue. If they are equally physically competent, then warriors keeps following.
We had four, and it was a problem.
Travis Cole
im fine going by your math. if a warrior is doing 6 dps he is at a severe disadvantage not listed in raw dps calculations (lack of shield, only one weapon, etc.)
how much damage will the warrior take to deliver 12 points of damage to an NPC swinging 2 claws for 2? anywere from 4-8, maybe more.
how much will the rogue take? maybe 2
how much will the empath take? probobly none
what happens if the warrior charges the empath? hes going to get magic fear'd.
if he charges the rogue? 1 vorpal root'd. true the warrior can resist that, but hes swinging 3 so cant use skills remember?
most raw DPS calculation dont take into account the damage your taking to do said DPS. but as i said i dont want warriors to do 3 or 4, i want them to do 2 without much trouble and their skills to work better with one another.
actually i would like to point out that using math to ballance charge up skills is great but flawed, that means i could have a 10 min charge up for 300 magic, ballanced by math, but still broken
how much damage will the warrior take to deliver 12 points of damage to an NPC swinging 2 claws for 2? anywere from 4-8, maybe more.
how much will the rogue take? maybe 2
how much will the empath take? probobly none
what happens if the warrior charges the empath? hes going to get magic fear'd.
if he charges the rogue? 1 vorpal root'd. true the warrior can resist that, but hes swinging 3 so cant use skills remember?
most raw DPS calculation dont take into account the damage your taking to do said DPS. but as i said i dont want warriors to do 3 or 4, i want them to do 2 without much trouble and their skills to work better with one another.
actually i would like to point out that using math to ballance charge up skills is great but flawed, that means i could have a 10 min charge up for 300 magic, ballanced by math, but still broken
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
GM_Chris
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They also are far from great at damage mitigation. Def matrix is moot against tough opponents, hold ground is simply a warrior version of time stop that only affects the warrior (he cant do damage an just dies slowly, thats not mitigation is delaying), Parry is solid but useless against weak opponents (since it costs one to block one, only good if attack has poision/disease/etc add on) AND should nullifty the hit (since its parry /AVOID) and not just zero out damage), they get the same armor as two other paths do, and thier only real damage addressing upside is better combat reflexes and life points (which isnt mitigation).
define used by default with no thought please.
Ark Vulf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
options for this are:
This is a scale for output damage I could get behind, BUT it would take TONS more work by the NPC staff. With the skeleton crew they typically run with they have to use the "re pop" method to represent chalenges from large number groups of foes' which is much more physically taxing for the staff.
If they had a larger number of bodies, they could provide lower powered critters that could be "mowed down" by a warrior swinging 1 or 2. Then a badd ass could be one swinging 2 or 3.
As it is, to be a challenge, they need to super buff the critters because of the limited number of bodies they have.
I do not agree that its the only balanced skill, I do think its the only defensive skill the FIGHTER has that isnt limited by only being good under rare circumstances.
Marcus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ovak Stonecrusher
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If that were true a PC could have two paths. Since they cannot that statement is false.We are a multi-class type of system
so you could set up a warrior to be good at sustained damage or to mitigate damage.
In fact warriors are no better than anyone else at sustained damage output, since anyone can take the disciplines that give a weapon focus and the master path skill ruins the path damage bonus by shredding the defensive skills.I would say warrior is best at mitigating damage. It does not do this poorly as it is superior to every other path out there.
They also are far from great at damage mitigation. Def matrix is moot against tough opponents, hold ground is simply a warrior version of time stop that only affects the warrior (he cant do damage an just dies slowly, thats not mitigation is delaying), Parry is solid but useless against weak opponents (since it costs one to block one, only good if attack has poision/disease/etc add on) AND should nullifty the hit (since its parry /AVOID) and not just zero out damage), they get the same armor as two other paths do, and thier only real damage addressing upside is better combat reflexes and life points (which isnt mitigation).
I personally hate parry with utter passion since it is used by default with absolutely no thought behind it at all, but that is just me.
define used by default with no thought please.
Ark Vulf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cant agree with pretty bad, but inferior due to being a master path skill compared to a roughly duplicate level 4 discipline skill anyone can get.weapon spec in particular is pretty bad. especially because it does not stack with weapon focus.
options for this are:
I would be reluctantly ok with that, the reasons for my reluctant agreement will be covered later.-turn weapon spec into weapon focus any like dwarf, and make it continue to not stack with any other weapon focus.
since rage already allows that, the tweaks I would suggest are change the name to combat focus and make it stack with weapon focus IF there is no shield, and with rage with the loss of the defensive skills rage currently hinders. This would allow a 4 point 2 handed weapon weilding berserker terror that is very balanced by the loss of defenses.-let it stack with weapon focus, and if you weild 1 weapon and no shield you can do 4.
1 is a farmer
2 is your average bandit
3 is a combat warrior
4 was your badass elite
This is a scale for output damage I could get behind, BUT it would take TONS more work by the NPC staff. With the skeleton crew they typically run with they have to use the "re pop" method to represent chalenges from large number groups of foes' which is much more physically taxing for the staff.
If they had a larger number of bodies, they could provide lower powered critters that could be "mowed down" by a warrior swinging 1 or 2. Then a badd ass could be one swinging 2 or 3.
As it is, to be a challenge, they need to super buff the critters because of the limited number of bodies they have.
I disagree that MOST EVERYONE is swinging 4, and charging a crit for 4 isnt swinging for 4 in the FH context. its swinging for 1 or 2 and charging for more.but most everyone swing "4" anyway. the base critical strike is taken by more then half of the PC base.
I agree, other paths can stand on path skills alone, warrior flounders wihout a discipline to boost it.to finish it up you pointed out something. for a warrior to do decent damage they still have to commit to a full discipline.
If your speaking of the master weapon specialization or rage, I agree.-offensivly the cost is too high to swing decent damage.
-defensivly parry is the only one with a decent ballance to it, but more and more skills are finding away to circumvent it (vorpal knockout, vorpal root)
I do not agree that its the only balanced skill, I do think its the only defensive skill the FIGHTER has that isnt limited by only being good under rare circumstances.
When making these comparisons, you have to do it on the assumptions that the PC/NPC built with that skill hasnt had the time to prep. To do otherwise, it just becomes a look at situations involved and not the foundation of the skill set.-soak. . .yeah it does that okay, but the diference between a warrior and a healer/sage is 4 soak and 40-60 points
I like the analogyif you didnt look at any of the negitives it does seem that way doesnt it. (hey we can give your car an extra 100 horsepower and you can therefore go faster. . .ignore the lack of brakes, seatbelt, roof, good suspension, all wheel drive, etc. . . .but you go faster!!!
Marcus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actualy when a warrior has to HIT, not just swing at, but HIT a "fodder" NPC 20 times before dropping it he is NOT mowing anything. I do get tha reason is because fewer NPC bodies require tougher NPC crittersThere is absolutely no reason to up the combat proficiency of the Warrior path. They already mow through enemies.
Pointless no, just require more thought and tactics than a full on frontal assault. That SHOULD be the purvey of the warriors.If they were any better then the modified stats for NPCs to make combat challenging for them would make it pointless for any other characters that aren't warriors to be in combat situations.
Which is how it SHOULD be against tougher NPCs, unless your a warrior. Against fodder NPCs things would still be the same.We "others" would get smashed.
If anyone can swing for 1, that is the opposite of combat proficient. In fact its just the baseline. and a barely noticable bump to 2 isnt elite. In fact its become fairly common.Remember this is supposed to be a low numbers game where swinging a constant "1" is considered being combat proficient, and constant "2" for any reason (rage/focus) makes you effectively an elite combatant with lots of experience.
I also like the skill, and the PC doesnt need to be a politically slants concept. Pirate captain, military commander, or even crime boss fits the bill.Even Noble Reputation is a skill most players scoff at but is sweet for a Warrior character that is roleplayed with any political leanings. It's three benefits in one skill, which even includes the player starting the game with a force of 25 free troops of their own!
Ovak Stonecrusher
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While not trying to alter this mindset, I can attest coming form a system that had many, that if its a skill a PC has more than one event, they will learn to use it without the akwardness you envision. in CARPs, the clashes came, during the events I attended, because of the reduction being variables rather than set ammounts I.E. 50% rather than 15.We won't have a skill that necessitates subtraction during combat. I realize most of the time, this will just be one damage, but it still creates a mental moment during combat that makes things confusing.
a defensive matrix that allowed the user to swing for no more than one damaghe would be no where as broken as the play test verion. It would also be more in line with the warrior stereo type wading through the hordes of fodder baddies you read about and see in films like 300 or LOTRI think Chris mentioned this before, but I will repeat it again. We have playtested a defensive matrix where you could swing for damage and mitigate damage. Some of the words used to describe this test were "broken" and "sick" and the like. One player could not in good conscience continue with the test.
Grand High Chancellor of ROBUST UNPLEASANTNESS
...and the 11th commandment is:
"The stupid shall be punished!"
...and the 11th commandment is:
"The stupid shall be punished!"
that was a massive catch up post but i commend the way you set it up and posted it
threw this out in another post but i figured i would re post.
what if D. matrix added a "1" to all frontal melee attacks?
this would allow things like poison, disease, and sleep that normally surge to be parry/avoided as long as they were melee driven.
as well as the change to hold ground. reduce the bonus life to 2, let the person walk, when you exit your at 1 life not 0.
threw this out in another post but i figured i would re post.
what if D. matrix added a "1" to all frontal melee attacks?
this would allow things like poison, disease, and sleep that normally surge to be parry/avoided as long as they were melee driven.
as well as the change to hold ground. reduce the bonus life to 2, let the person walk, when you exit your at 1 life not 0.
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
I played a Warrior/Bureacrat for 2 years. I had the venerable trait and I used a sword and shield. I am not the best fighter, I would consider myself middle of the road.
I used Hold Ground and Defensive Matrix quite frequently. I could not swing more than one damage. I wrecked NPC's. I beat a couple of rogues with ease. Empaths cursed as their attacks hit my shield. Even if they blew it up I could still close in on them, whack them like 7 times and they dropped. Wizards are a joke in combat one on one.
With that said I have a different play style than some. If warrior and rogue is as broken as some would like us to believe then half the field wouldn't consist of warriors. There are just as many rogues as sages, healers etc....
Experience. I feel that it should hold some weight in these kinds of conversations. Theory is nice but experience trumps.
I used Hold Ground and Defensive Matrix quite frequently. I could not swing more than one damage. I wrecked NPC's. I beat a couple of rogues with ease. Empaths cursed as their attacks hit my shield. Even if they blew it up I could still close in on them, whack them like 7 times and they dropped. Wizards are a joke in combat one on one.
With that said I have a different play style than some. If warrior and rogue is as broken as some would like us to believe then half the field wouldn't consist of warriors. There are just as many rogues as sages, healers etc....
Experience. I feel that it should hold some weight in these kinds of conversations. Theory is nice but experience trumps.
it was a point on using math to ballancecole45 wrote:Damage is capped. Making an argument of three hundred damage is a logical fallicy.
you cannot parry it, it would become "0 vorpal root" and still work. it could still be resisted via sure footed. but only if your wearing medium armor and not rageing.cole45 wrote:One vorpal root only last ten seconds. And it can be parried if nit using rage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8vOcAaNWoEcole45 wrote:You have no math to back up how much damage it takes to deal damage
But you are very wrong about how much the warrior takes.
that the spider goblin WH battle, lots of monsters weilding 2 claws for 2. NPC's dont care about their health and are just trying to hit you 4-8 damage in 2 seconds is not unreasonable, especially with 1 weapon and no shield. (i will point out the reason i was on the groud is travis root'd me while i was running backwards, my feet stop'd but i didnt )
cole45 wrote:Assuming equal fighers the warrior can fend off two weapons with his shiekd.
actually no. a shield cannot be in two places at once, if one strike is high left, and another is low right your taking 1 hit. but alas if your weilding 3 you cannot use a shield.
cole45 wrote:Yes. Empath can fear the warrior and break his toys which is on ourpose.
im not argueing empaths or their role, their fine if outshined by rogues new increase in crit strike but i think their okay.
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
How did you bastages sneak in! Now I have to do ANOTHER catch up post! Curse you all!!
Ark Vulf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No way you shoould be able to do damage AND use this in any form.
One day I am paying thugs to drag you to an event to show you the errors in your live combat assements. two weapons is NOT better than sword and board.
uhm...then it would be the wander all over the ground skill, not the heroic, rear guard, run ill hold them off while you get away skill its meant to be. I thin your stuck on making all the warrior skills into run and gun type warrior skills because thats how you fight. It not really how real combat would work though. run by LARP warrior fighters would get crushed by the slow advancing tactical fighter.
Hold ground should be pretty much like it is. Im not all on board for ending at 0 or less LP, seems an artifical way to force the dramatic hero-falls-to-the-ground-form-the-effort tactic. I think you shold get the 10, get beat upon and be at your max or current LP at the end, which ever is less; seems silly to activate it, face a few foes and have others kill them in 20 seconds and you still fall over even though your at 1 LP less than your max. Maybe you should get 10 life at the start, and just lose ten at the end and stay where that puts ya...*shrugs*
cole45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
actualy everyone can double that with the right disciplines, so that kinda nullifies the addition in your math no?
Like Arc points out, doing so decreases the length of time the warrior survives, and hence his output. *glares at the growing space time fractures...*
Zeira
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cant fully agree, some are lkely playing warrior because they built a warrior PC concept, not for the combat stats.
I do think the warrior doesnt really function like a warrior should.
Ark Vulf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinda agree since its rare to be left bleeding alone anymore.-endurance: meh
I belive changing this to a one point reduction as it currently stands, or a 2 point reduction for 3 or 4 LP would make it way more useful.-defensive matrix: any melee attack to the front has "1" added to its call, costs 1 life point to enter and a 5 count to exit.
No way you shoould be able to do damage AND use this in any form.
why? didnt you say elsewhere youwerent for warriors getting MORE soak?-CR: maybe ICR 3 instead of 2
Id like to STRONGLY state, a vorpal attack getting past parry because parry just drops the attack to 0 is the biggest mechanics flawed loophold I have ever seen in any game system. Parry/Avoid ahould do just what it implies...cancel the entire attack.-parry avoid blow: no change
Still against the inability to use a shield, there is no logic in it. Its just an artificial restriction heaped onto the stack of restrictions rage already had.-rage: cost and benifit stay the same, allow the use of life point activated skill, continue to negate the use of charge up, cooldown, or reload related skills. remove weapon spec from the game completly
sure for hold ground, but didnt you suggest movement elsewhere? Defensive matrix is ALL about movement.... a fluid sphere of swirling and rotating weapon blur to deflect blows. making it a stance is counter to the heart of the skill, and just makes it a weak hold ground. Rage as a stance is also counter to its concept....berserking orcs dont stand there and rage at you...they run and chase you and crush you into a fine pulp suitable for slurping up. Rage has to be mobile.also make hold ground, defensive matrix, and rage all "stances" and you may only have one stance active at a time.
actually no. a shield cannot be in two places at once, if one strike is high left, and another is low right your taking 1 hit.
One day I am paying thugs to drag you to an event to show you the errors in your live combat assements. two weapons is NOT better than sword and board.
Having played the old and new rules, I think the old was better in most ways. I do think Kiel is correct, you do seem to want to play a different game.obviously you never saw the rules this game had before what it is now
ALOT has changed over the years, i found some orignal rule drafts and i can tell you that
Thanks, tried to make it uncluttered and comprehensive..... ok thats enough agreeing and being nice to each other...i see space time rifts forming!that was a massive catch up post but i commend the way you set it up and posted it
please examplify as I am confuzzled...what if D. matrix added a "1" to all frontal melee attacks?
this would allow things like poison, disease, and sleep that normally surge to be parry/avoided as long as they were melee driven.
as well as the change to hold ground. reduce the bonus life to 2, let the person walk, when you exit your at 1 life not 0.
uhm...then it would be the wander all over the ground skill, not the heroic, rear guard, run ill hold them off while you get away skill its meant to be. I thin your stuck on making all the warrior skills into run and gun type warrior skills because thats how you fight. It not really how real combat would work though. run by LARP warrior fighters would get crushed by the slow advancing tactical fighter.
Hold ground should be pretty much like it is. Im not all on board for ending at 0 or less LP, seems an artifical way to force the dramatic hero-falls-to-the-ground-form-the-effort tactic. I think you shold get the 10, get beat upon and be at your max or current LP at the end, which ever is less; seems silly to activate it, face a few foes and have others kill them in 20 seconds and you still fall over even though your at 1 LP less than your max. Maybe you should get 10 life at the start, and just lose ten at the end and stay where that puts ya...*shrugs*
cole45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
while thats true, two weapons is better defensivle AND offensivly since the two attacks a second your using as a baseline will have a higher chance of hitting due to uncertinty of point of origin, so that HAS to be factored into damage output.Dual weapon doesn't matter because you can't swing faster than you can count.
warriors can up that to 4. Double that of everyone else.
actualy everyone can double that with the right disciplines, so that kinda nullifies the addition in your math no?
Warriors can ip that to 6.
Like Arc points out, doing so decreases the length of time the warrior survives, and hence his output. *glares at the growing space time fractures...*
Zeira
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.With that said I have a different play style than some. If warrior and rogue is as broken as some would like us to believe then half the field wouldn't consist of warriors
Cant fully agree, some are lkely playing warrior because they built a warrior PC concept, not for the combat stats.
I do think the warrior doesnt really function like a warrior should.
I agree 1000%Experience. I feel that it should hold some weight in these kinds of conversations. Theory is nice but experience trumps
Grand High Chancellor of ROBUST UNPLEASANTNESS
...and the 11th commandment is:
"The stupid shall be punished!"
...and the 11th commandment is:
"The stupid shall be punished!"
i would add quotes in there but quotes in quotes in quotes is tricky. . .Wyrmwrath wrote:Id like to STRONGLY state, a vorpal attack getting past parry because parry just drops the attack to 0 is the biggest mechanics flawed loophold I have ever seen in any game system. Parry/Avoid ahould do just what it implies...cancel the entire attack.-parry avoid blow: no change
Still against the inability to use a shield, there is no logic in it. Its just an artificial restriction heaped onto the stack of restrictions rage already had.-rage: cost and benifit stay the same, allow the use of life point activated skill, continue to negate the use of charge up, cooldown, or reload related skills. remove weapon spec from the game completly
sure for hold ground, but didnt you suggest movement elsewhere? Defensive matrix is ALL about movement.... a fluid sphere of swirling and rotating weapon blur to deflect blows. making it a stance is counter to the heart of the skill, and just makes it a weak hold ground. Rage as a stance is also counter to its concept....berserking orcs dont stand there and rage at you...they run and chase you and crush you into a fine pulp suitable for slurping up. Rage has to be mobile.also make hold ground, defensive matrix, and rage all "stances" and you may only have one stance active at a time.
actually no. a shield cannot be in two places at once, if one strike is high left, and another is low right your taking 1 hit.
One day I am paying thugs to drag you to an event to show you the errors in your live combat assements. two weapons is NOT better than sword and board.
please examplify as I am confuzzled...what if D. matrix added a "1" to all frontal melee attacks?
this would allow things like poison, disease, and sleep that normally surge to be parry/avoided as long as they were melee driven.
as well as the change to hold ground. reduce the bonus life to 2, let the person walk, when you exit your at 1 life not 0.
uhm...then it would be the wander all over the ground skill, not the heroic, rear guard, run ill hold them off while you get away skill its meant to be. I thin your stuck on making all the warrior skills into run and gun type warrior skills because thats how you fight. It not really how real combat would work though. run by LARP warrior fighters would get crushed by the slow advancing tactical fighter.
Hold ground should be pretty much like it is. Im not all on board for ending at 0 or less LP, seems an artifical way to force the dramatic hero-falls-to-the-ground-form-the-effort tactic. I think you shold get the 10, get beat upon and be at your max or current LP at the end, which ever is less; seems silly to activate it, face a few foes and have others kill them in 20 seconds and you still fall over even though your at 1 LP less than your max. Maybe you should get 10 life at the start, and just lose ten at the end and stay where that puts ya...*shrugs*
parry droping to 0 being wonky, indeed
you can use a shield with rage as long as you dont have a weapon focus too, so re look over that with that in mind
the "stances" thing, i dont attach that word with not being able to move, i think a warrior should be able to move while using all skills, hold ground i said walk because in 300 they slowly advanced foward when they could. no you should not run in hold ground.
defensive matrix example: someone walks up and hits you on the shield for "sleep" it surges and you pass out, if you have DM active its "1 sleep" and therefore does not surge and has no effect. poison becomes "1 poison" disease becomes "1 disease" etc.
***
on another note, two weapons can get around a shield, a shield is shoulder to knee hight, and shoulder to shoulder width, if you are being struck at the exact same time at both the top of your left shoulder, and below your right knee, you cannot cover both areas at the same time
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
...with a shield. But you totally can with the weapon you have in your other hand.on another note, two weapons can get around a shield, a shield is shoulder to knee hight, and shoulder to shoulder width, if you are being struck at the exact same time at both the top of your left shoulder, and below your right knee, you cannot cover both areas at the same time
Malachi Vandire - Deceased
Solomon Feir
Scott Smith
Solomon Feir
Scott Smith
indeed
a tactic of my brother and I (and sun tzu) is to feint towards the face, usually the shoulders. the person will raise their shield (blocking vision) or the body will react to a strike coming towards the face and flinch in response (achieving the same goal) allowing us a split second to strike our intended destination.
a tactic of my brother and I (and sun tzu) is to feint towards the face, usually the shoulders. the person will raise their shield (blocking vision) or the body will react to a strike coming towards the face and flinch in response (achieving the same goal) allowing us a split second to strike our intended destination.
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
you can use a shield with rage as long as you dont have a weapon focus too, so re look over that with that in mind
while true, using rage to get to 2 damage and losing all your defensive skills is just silly when you have a weapon focus option. The only good use for rage would be upping 2 damage to 3, IF it didnt leave your junk swinging in the wind undefended.
the define "stanmce" as your using it if you dont intend for it to require immobility.the "stances" thing, i dont attach that word with not being able to move, i think a warrior should be able to move while using all skills, hold ground i said walk because in 300 they slowly advanced foward when they could. no you should not run in hold ground.
and how is that any different than when your NOT using def matrix...?defensive matrix example: someone walks up and hits you on the shield for "sleep" it surges and you pass out, if you have DM active its "1 sleep" and therefore does not surge and has no effect. poison becomes "1 poison" disease becomes "1 disease" etc.
wow i never thought about that...holy crap...if only i had a weapon to block with in my non shield carrying hand!on another note, two weapons can get around a shield, a shield is shoulder to knee hight, and shoulder to shoulder width, if you are being struck at the exact same time at both the top of your left shoulder, and below your right knee, you cannot cover both areas at the same time
c'mon ark, you know better than that I know you do. The only advantages two weapons has over sword and board are being less encumbering and the tactical advantage of the target not knowing what weapon is doing the attacking.
Rogue Critical strike needs to be changed to 3, 6, 9 per level. its broken.
whats broken is the ability to attack form the front, not the damage
I am sure iot works on barely skilled fighters all the time...until they get better that is...a tactic of my brother and I (and sun tzu) is to feint towards the face, usually the shoulders. the person will raise their shield (blocking vision) or the body will react to a strike coming towards the face and flinch in response (achieving the same goal) allowing us a split second to strike our intended destination.
Last edited by Wyrmwrath on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grand High Chancellor of ROBUST UNPLEASANTNESS
...and the 11th commandment is:
"The stupid shall be punished!"
...and the 11th commandment is:
"The stupid shall be punished!"
my change to rage would let you use life points skills, such as parry and resists. a warrior could swing 2 with a shield and the only downside would be you cant use charge up, cooldown, and reload skills. (crit strike, spells, 5 vorpal, 5 crush, etc.)Wyrmwrath wrote:you can use a shield with rage as long as you dont have a weapon focus too, so re look over that with that in mind
while true, using rage to get to 2 damage and losing all your defensive skills is just silly when you have a weapon focus option. The only good use for rage would be upping 2 damage to 3, IF it didnt leave your junk swinging in the wind undefended.
stance in my idea is used to classify a skill and nothing else, you may only have one stance active at a time. a stance is a skill that is active untill you choose to end it. all it means is you cannot have rage, dm, and hold ground active at the same time.Wyrmwrath wrote:the define "stanmce" as your using it if you dont intend for it to require immobility.the "stances" thing, i dont attach that word with not being able to move, i think a warrior should be able to move while using all skills, hold ground i said walk because in 300 they slowly advanced foward when they could. no you should not run in hold ground.
if a "1" is attached to the call then it does not surge, it can be blocked by a shield, armor, and combat reflexes, without the number it surges and is unavoidable save if you have a resist.Wyrmwrath wrote:and how is that any different than when your NOT using def matrix...?defensive matrix example: someone walks up and hits you on the shield for "sleep" it surges and you pass out, if you have DM active its "1 sleep" and therefore does not surge and has no effect. poison becomes "1 poison" disease becomes "1 disease" etc.
shield is better yes, its downside comes from as you pointed out, you have to carry it around, it can be heavy, it can get in the way, etc. two weapons give you the bonus of as you said being hard to track, giving you more damage then 1, and more defense then 1, but not as much as a shield.Wyrmwrath wrote:wow i never thought about that...holy crap...if only i had a weapon to block with in my non shield carrying hand!on another note, two weapons can get around a shield, a shield is shoulder to knee hight, and shoulder to shoulder width, if you are being struck at the exact same time at both the top of your left shoulder, and below your right knee, you cannot cover both areas at the same time
c'mon ark, you know better than that I know you do. The only advantages two weapons has over sword and board are being less encumbering and the tactical advantage of the target not knowing what weapon is doing the attacking.
i doubt its ever going to be changed back to backstab, and i dont mind the fact that you can strike anywere, i just think its too much as it is now.Wyrmwrath wrote:Rogue Critical strike needs to be changed to 3, 6, 9 per level. its broken.
whats broken is the ability to attack form the front, not the damage
Wyrmwrath wrote:I am sure it works on barely skilled fighters all the time...until they get better that is...a tactic of my brother and I (and sun tzu) is to feint towards the face, usually the shoulders. the person will raise their shield (blocking vision) or the body will react to a strike coming towards the face and flinch in response (achieving the same goal) allowing us a split second to strike our intended destination.
PS: qoutes in qoutes in qoutes HA!
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.