Rule Thoughts

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:11 am

right now, counter is ALL or nothing.

maybe an advanced skill for it or something to make it like that.

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:14 pm

Rhul wrote:The current version implies (and my version expressly describes) that a Mage can lift a curse at any time after casting. So you wouldn't be stuck if the guy got away, just lift the curse off them.

After some thought on it remaining an advanced ability, I DO still think though that the curse shouldn't be able to be removed unless the mage has LOS to the cursed. My reasoning for this is the same as why LOS should be required for casting it: It's a logistical nightmare.

You can't guarantee you can get someone to/from the target to tell them they are cursed/not cursed in a timely manner. We had "timestop" issues like this during the "night of the burning skulls" where timing was everything. If the desire is for the mage to be able to remove the "curse" regardless of LOS, then the curse needs to have a shorter duration than the length of the event (Or indefinitely, as it stands now) so both the mage and the inlictee knows when it's up. I'd suggest a couple hours at most, since Curse has no counter or cure, while things like Disease, Poison and sleep/knockout do. There are a lot of situations where events/encounters matter to the second, let alone the minutes it takes between the N/PC going to NPC camp to tell staff the N/PC is cursed/uncursed and the staff finding the PC to tell them the same. Even if you added in that the mage is still -1LP until they find the cursed person, you are adding in an extra step where you have to locate the mage to tell him you informed the cursee that they were no longer under it's effects and now they have access to their 1LP.

Keith the mage has went to NPC camp to tell staff that he has uncursed Bill. Staff goes to inform Bill that he is no longer cursed, but Bill has JUST died in an encounter against some random monsters, even though he wasn't actually cursed anymore and probably would have lived otherwise. Meanwhile, Keith had his one LP back from being healed, which made the difference on his trip back to where the PCs are, because he is able to use an ability to escape some monsters that he wouldn't have been able to use otherwise without that 1LP.

I think your suggestions are a definite improvement. If it would stay an advanced ability rather than being bumped up to master, I'd suggest a bump up to -2LP for the cast, due to it's utility, or make it only cast-able on one target at a time.

My beef is that it is overpowered as an advanced ability. As it stands now, it's "infinite" duration, there is no real counter, and you can cast it without the "Cursee's" knowledge. No. Just NO. I can't think of too many skills (Are there any others?) that work this way. Even the healer's ability to disease a target (basically a debuff like this, just more limited) requires LOS and targeting, you can have resist/immunity to and has a remedy, and it's an Advanced ability as well.

I like the idea of thinking of it as a "knee-jerk" "debuff" and re-writing it so it works that way. If it were more restricted (More expensive to maintain, limited to one target at a time), I'd even be ok with it having a much shorter cast time so it had some utility in combat. Similar to new skills like "Soothe Animal" and "Charm: Pacify" or whatever the skill is that brings all damage down to one. I think this would make it both more useful, interesting AND more balanced.

Rhul · Post by **Rhul** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:04 pm

True, you should probably make it so that the LOS works both ways, so you have to see the target to de-curse them.

As for the time issue, I don't have a problem with that. Either:

A. You know the general time that some bad guy is coming to town to generally rough up the PC's. Example: the Vampire Lord(s) from WH. So you have the curse prepared ahead of time.

B. In combat. Especially if you know a bad guy is supposed to be waiting at the end of a cave, etc. So you either have the spell worked up ahead of time, or hide 'very' well somewhere for the ten minutes so you don;t get disrupted. A caster that's trying to work up a curse in sight of any NPC's isn't a very good one.

C. A "just in case" spell. It's casted sometime well before any combat scene is expected, and the Arcane simply can't use any active spells during the time or have anything doe that would disrupt him/her he's "holding" the spell handy. It's the trade-off for what can essentially be a huge 'Vorpal' call.

Altearez · Post by **Altearez** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:11 pm

warriors have crappy advance switch out skills in comparison to the other paths

Empath
Drain- 30sec "Magic Disease"
Consume Magic Item-converts magic items into LP over max health

Healer
Disease- 30sec "Disease"
Steady Hand- can't be interrupted while using healer skills

Rouge
Admittance-reduces pick lock time
Hamstring- 1LP "1 Vorpal root"

Sage
Study Thy Foe- 1min "10"
Resist Charm-"resist Charm"

Warrior
Crush- 1LP "1 Crush"
Battle Tactics- grants all listeners 2 crush as an empirical enchantment

Ok so, A warrior with 20 life can still only do 20 crush, then die that might kill 1 person, that is useless.

How many times has anyone seen battle tactics used at an event, not to mention pc's don't want it because it gets rid of their buffs and other empirical enchantments. who the hell wants 1 "2 crush" anyway

all of the other paths have at least one useful advance skill if not a sick one.

Battle tactics is more of a lv.1 discipline skill. crush for 1 LP is more of a shouldn't exist because its useless like ethanol get a lot less out of what you put in.

Make Seer sleep magical, problem solved, but reduce charge time to 40 Sec, 60sec is to slow for a disciplen like Seer.

Rouges can swing at least 6 damage every 2 seconds, tell me warriors swinging 4's is overpowered, lol. I get my ass kicked too much as a warrior to be overpowered, and not to mention how many times do we listen to the full tank warriors.... never. Rouge crit strike combined with the exotic weapon is super overpowered, try to make the strongest fastest swing with a rouge write up and you'll be surprised.
I'm sorry my low soak seer character did a lot more in one event that my swinging 4 tank warrior ever has.

and if people hate sleep so much, maybe we need more healers or people with awaken or more alchemists that make the awaken potions.

sorry have been debating with friends about rules since game ended last year, lot of pent up rule changing anger. by the way our rules are officially like michigan weather if you don't like em wait 5 min.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:04 am

warrior swap out skills were designed to give them a lower armor less tanky version to play.

warrior DPS and SOAK is the highest in the entire game.

A rogue with expenive items can swing 3 dps (6 for 2) that is interrupt-able.

with two hits a second(average for no machine gunning.) a warrior can throw 4 with range and 6 with weapon focus. and this is steady static dps that when taken as an intigral(average over time) it FAR out paces anything else.

all other dps cals are UNDER one. 30 for 60, etc. This is by design.

a normal person has a dps of 2, which is higher than most charge skills. sure charge skills give you burst damage, but in reality you will not them off as regularly as the even the 2dps of normal person swinging one.

add to it, they have defensive matrix which negates that one they are the most potent force in game. Can a warrior kill anyone? no. empaths are designed to kill them.

and any two people can kill any one. thats just the way it is.

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:40 am

I also still feel that a couple of the warrior's expanded skills are not useful. I have never been in a situation where spending a LP to swing crush has been worthwhile, or a situation where swinging 10 Crush and dying would be a viable option.

I also find that the warriors rousing speech is a skill that not a lot of people are interested in taking advantage because of it's limited use. I feel this would do better if it provided a temporary boost to CR (by +1 or +2) and could stack onto another buff but not itself.

I still feel as though Weapon Specialization is overpowered and would be better replaced by anything else. To be honest, people who stack themselves up to being able to deal 4 damage per swing are wasting points. It can stay because I know what there is really little to difference to the person being hit with constant 3's or 4's even though mathmatically the difference is huge.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:02 am

warrior is hard though because they have the best and most useful skills in game already.

parry,rage,defensive matrix and hold ground are just awesome.

suggestions:
we are trying to make lighter armored warriors, good but different. post suggestions here.

weapon spec needs to not stack. that's all.

4 is bad because it is a magic number. four can drop most people who are armored to zero in one hit.

. sad face.

'

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:24 am

Lighter armored Warriors? Like Rouges?

If you're tring to add a bunch of light or medium armor skills to Warrior I feel as that is not a good route to go. As of right now they are the only path that can wear heavy with no restrictions (As long as you don't count Sure Footed) other than Sage. Many disciplines already have armor restrictions. If you are thinking about adding an armor restriction to skill for balance it is already broken.

Armor is hard to phys rep. It get's shattered. It restricts actual movement. It costs in game resources. It only offers little actual protection. 4 points per catagory, That's like 2 hits on average from NPC's. That means if I'm in full heavy armor I can take 6 more hit's than a person wearing no armor on average. I can last 3 seconds longer in combat.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:07 am

you miss understand.

we want to make a warrior build that is less "tanky" you can get that from the base build no problem. the idea is to allow people to swap stuff to get what they want.

that is all, i don;t mean adding armor restrictions to their existing builds.

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:38 pm

Are you thinking about adding skills to warrior that are more oriented towards agility and lighter armor?

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:37 pm

that's the plan.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:14 pm

yes because with an average swing speed of 2.5 per second and a wind velocity of. . . oh wait, i thought i was playing an MMO

someone had to say it.

you cant describe combat in a mathamatical formula, sorry. for instance, im pretty sure i could beat someone twice my age and weight in a fight no matter the build. this is not meant to offend anybody, its just a reasoning.

now following is bolded simply so that people can see it, and is not a sign of anger, as i am very happy these days

HOW MUCH DAMAGE AND LIFE YOU HAVE MEAN NOTHING!

. . .in a system with skills and magic and so on.

give an NPC 100000 health, and let them swing 100000. and tell us thats all they can do. well take them down in a hit!!

sure you can compare a rouge to a warrior, and say warrior gets more soak and quote dps and all that, rouges have knockout, open doors, duel weild, etc. warriors have. . .well soak, and thats all they have, take that away and they have nothing.

we already have few warriors as it is, but i could care less whose changing what for whatever reasons i guess, well have no warriors, the rouges and empaths will run away when monster get close, the healers will get killed because nobody protected them, and all the PC's will die. . . .way to go

EDIT: also people for the love of the game STOP saying warrior base damage is 4 ITS NOT!!! that requires NON repoping hero points, you will be lucky to do it ONCE A SCENE! ONCE A YEAR!

not meant to be angry, people just actually read what you say when it JUMPS at you

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:46 am

So...how much damage and life you have does mean something. There is some math involved in a larp fight, mainly because we use numbers to represent damage and how much damage another character can take. I understand there are skills that can take down the tankliest of warriors and skills that can completely negate high damage calls.

The average amount of swings per second is the easiest base we can find but we should probably use percentages because it doesn't matter how fast you swing at that point. However I will agree that every larp fight does not come down to strictly numbers.

Warrior's a can easily swing 4 damage by using Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Rage. No, they will not be able to use any skills while doing so. However this is still a big amount of damage. And the fact that people can easily start swinging constant 3 vorpal and 3 crush without a hero point...that's a whole other can of worms.

There are also plenty of warriors on the field. At least 5-7 at every event I've ever been to. There will always be plenty of warriors because it's a solid path, It's fun to play and they got a good set of skills without Weapon Specialization.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:51 am

as i stated i dont care who changes what for what, if warriors get screwed enough i will just jump on the rouge wagon with the rest of the fighters. luckily this game has alot of choices so if one gets screwed its very easy to find another

none of this is meant in anger, i have just actually played a warrior so i figured i would be qualified to respond. but if it gets nerfed for whatever reason ill play a character that can actually do something.

ill have you know my current FULL PATH WARRIOR relies on. . .Critical strike!!!! for damage

recap:
change it, drop soak, drop damage, drop armor, its up to those in charge to do. if it becomes week or unfavorable, im sure we will move on to more fertile lands

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:24 am

as i stated i dont care who changes what for what, if warriors get screwed enough i will just jump on the rouge wagon with the rest of the fighters.

I have seen this sentiment on these forums several times. Doesnt anyone select skills because its right for the ROLE they are plasying at the ROLE PLAYING GAME anymore? Or are has it just become a live version of World of Warcraft and we are to power build the PC so we are the most deadly and awesomest badd ass ever?

just curious...