Also, death ears is probably correct. Though I think you'd have far too many people complaining about Arcane being removed (since good luck explaining any of that without magic).
Also, I do believe someone said no rule changes this year.
way off topic
Moderator: Admin
hey now, Witch Hunter doesn't necessarily hate magic users.
Also, death ears is probably correct. Though I think you'd have far too many people complaining about Arcane being removed (since good luck explaining any of that without magic).
Also, I do believe someone said no rule changes this year.
Also, death ears is probably correct. Though I think you'd have far too many people complaining about Arcane being removed (since good luck explaining any of that without magic).
Also, I do believe someone said no rule changes this year.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
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Atrum Draconus
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Modern A witch is a member of a particular spiritual construct often based on an amalgamation of different religious concepts and practices -and- who practices magic/sorcery within the scope of this faith.
Taken from the site that you say is a great site. I happen to agree that witch has a broader meaning than that, but I don't think we should have black people hunters, white people hunters, christian hunters, creole hunters, or witch hunters. Mage, Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcane any of the terms that aren't groups of real people AND\OR members of real religions. I don't understand the staunch opposition, I would think that people wouldn't want something that is associated with hunting a real group of people as part of their game just as much as a religious group and coupling those would make it pretty clear. So I'm gonna make a white people hunter like I said and see how long it's ok with everyone. I KNOW if it was a white person making a black human hunter it wouldn't be allowed, and if it was I'd roundhouse that player in the face and I'd never be back to the game. It would be a slap in the face to my culture, as there used to be white hooded people that DID hunt black people all the time in the American south. Wait, why does that sound familiar? OH yeah, witches have been hunted ever since there has been written language.
That's up to you, if you want to take it that far that's your perogative. Then you need to state in the book that there is to be no role-playing of prayer or anything that could be construed as religious.
Taken from the site that you say is a great site. I happen to agree that witch has a broader meaning than that, but I don't think we should have black people hunters, white people hunters, christian hunters, creole hunters, or witch hunters. Mage, Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcane any of the terms that aren't groups of real people AND\OR members of real religions. I don't understand the staunch opposition, I would think that people wouldn't want something that is associated with hunting a real group of people as part of their game just as much as a religious group and coupling those would make it pretty clear. So I'm gonna make a white people hunter like I said and see how long it's ok with everyone. I KNOW if it was a white person making a black human hunter it wouldn't be allowed, and if it was I'd roundhouse that player in the face and I'd never be back to the game. It would be a slap in the face to my culture, as there used to be white hooded people that DID hunt black people all the time in the American south. Wait, why does that sound familiar? OH yeah, witches have been hunted ever since there has been written language.
How does it feel?Also my entire conversation about removing magic from teh game seems to have fallen on death ears.
That's up to you, if you want to take it that far that's your perogative. Then you need to state in the book that there is to be no role-playing of prayer or anything that could be construed as religious.Atrum Draconus
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
You convinced me
Its not about taking it too far its about consistancy.
If witch hunter is offensive then practicing of fake magic seems logical to be offensive as well.
But I can see you point I will move on the GM forum to remove witch hunter, mage hunter, arcane hunter or any other type of hunter from the game that could involve a n actual group of people living today.
I will then ask to edit the beginning of the book that RP'ing any type of hatred toward that could be construed as hatred toward a real group IE attacking someone because they practice magic or even RP'ing a hatred toward someone for the sole use of magic to be wrong.
Once I hear back from the church of wicca I will discuss the complete removal of magic from the system.
Failure to meet these requirements will mean my removal from FH. I am not going to play a game that is actually doing something wrong.
Thank you for sticking with the topic as consistancy in belief is extreamly important to me.
Its not about taking it too far its about consistancy.
If witch hunter is offensive then practicing of fake magic seems logical to be offensive as well.
But I can see you point I will move on the GM forum to remove witch hunter, mage hunter, arcane hunter or any other type of hunter from the game that could involve a n actual group of people living today.
I will then ask to edit the beginning of the book that RP'ing any type of hatred toward that could be construed as hatred toward a real group IE attacking someone because they practice magic or even RP'ing a hatred toward someone for the sole use of magic to be wrong.
Once I hear back from the church of wicca I will discuss the complete removal of magic from the system.
Failure to meet these requirements will mean my removal from FH. I am not going to play a game that is actually doing something wrong.
Thank you for sticking with the topic as consistancy in belief is extreamly important to me.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
What exactly would be in a White Human Hunter discipline? Also, the Witch Hunter discipline does not necessarily hunt 'witches'. The name means nothing. If you made a hidden discipline called White Human Hunter, it'd probably change it later since I highly doubt the name would come even close to describing the skillset.
Witch Hunter is easily recognizable as something anti magic. Something like Empath Slayer would work but you must understand the game to understand that title. With Witch Hunter you do not. This makes it a better name.
Heck, if we are truly going to go the PC route, MtG has a card called Witch Hunter and Warhammer Online has a class named it. These are much more high profile than we are. I don't think we need to go to the effort of changing it due to some imagined threat.
Witch Hunter is easily recognizable as something anti magic. Something like Empath Slayer would work but you must understand the game to understand that title. With Witch Hunter you do not. This makes it a better name.
Heck, if we are truly going to go the PC route, MtG has a card called Witch Hunter and Warhammer Online has a class named it. These are much more high profile than we are. I don't think we need to go to the effort of changing it due to some imagined threat.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
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Atrum Draconus
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Ried I was saying I am going to roleplay that and that's what I would call myself in game.
Other people being insensitive isn't a reason to do it.
I'd be ok with arcane hunter, wizard hunter any name that is mainly a fantasy name and doesn't have real world implications of both a group of people and a religion.
Other people being insensitive isn't a reason to do it.
I'd be ok with arcane hunter, wizard hunter any name that is mainly a fantasy name and doesn't have real world implications of both a group of people and a religion.
Atrum Draconus
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
I didn't want to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
so, pirates are their divine beings, so we can't have swashbucklers,
and also, they hate ninjas, so we can't have assassins,
and also, we can't have violence of any kind, since it would offend quakers.
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn
dallid is out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
so, pirates are their divine beings, so we can't have swashbucklers,
and also, they hate ninjas, so we can't have assassins,
and also, we can't have violence of any kind, since it would offend quakers.
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn
dallid is out.
Travis Cole
Erik I started things out explaining why there was no religion. It is because it would make me uncomfortable because religion is important to me.
You have pointed out to me my bias. I never associated term witch as something a religious let along magic.
Witch, wicca are terms used for people who practice magic. You are trying to point out to me that this is a religious term and you have succeeded. This means that it cannot belong in a game I am associated with for the same reason I do not want crosses in the game for the same reason I wouldnt want religion in the game.
If I allow magic, which is a faith concept, into the game then I should allow all faith concepts into the game.
You have pointed out to me my bias. I never associated term witch as something a religious let along magic.
Witch, wicca are terms used for people who practice magic. You are trying to point out to me that this is a religious term and you have succeeded. This means that it cannot belong in a game I am associated with for the same reason I do not want crosses in the game for the same reason I wouldnt want religion in the game.
If I allow magic, which is a faith concept, into the game then I should allow all faith concepts into the game.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
Why? The name of the discipline in the book has nothing to do with what you call yourself. If you roleplayed some who hunts white people, great, it's kinda dickish and if you acted on it, you'll probably die real quick, but I don't think anyone would stop you. In fact, some people might look at you funny if you said "I hunt White people". Does FH even distuingish between white and black?
Same thing would happen if you played a true witch hunter. If you said "I only hunt Wiccans", people should look at you like you are crazy. There are no wiccans in the FH universe. Well, there might be but they don't exist anywhere close as of yet.
I honestly think this is hypersensitivity. If and when worldwide video games stop using it or get successfully sued for using it, then we should take notice. Until then, if someone truely feels their religon is slighted due to it then they are overly concerned with their religon (see Scientology and Xenu).
And Chris, by not defining 'magic' or how skills are fueled in FH, you already did allow all religons. If my extra CR comes from Xenu, so be it. Nothing stops me. The lack of definition here IS the definition. Only thing is to rip out the crap in the World Guide which I felt was stupid to begin with.
Same thing would happen if you played a true witch hunter. If you said "I only hunt Wiccans", people should look at you like you are crazy. There are no wiccans in the FH universe. Well, there might be but they don't exist anywhere close as of yet.
I honestly think this is hypersensitivity. If and when worldwide video games stop using it or get successfully sued for using it, then we should take notice. Until then, if someone truely feels their religon is slighted due to it then they are overly concerned with their religon (see Scientology and Xenu).
And Chris, by not defining 'magic' or how skills are fueled in FH, you already did allow all religons. If my extra CR comes from Xenu, so be it. Nothing stops me. The lack of definition here IS the definition. Only thing is to rip out the crap in the World Guide which I felt was stupid to begin with.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
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Atrum Draconus
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Ried, if it were just a religious thing, I would actually be less emphatic about it. But it singles out a real group of REAL people, some of which happen to be associated because of their religions.
No one dies real quick in FH, that would prove my point better than anything else could. And even if I did I'd just bring them back until I felt like the point was hammered home enough.
Unfortunately, the game does not exist soley in it's own universe. I understand that quite a few people will think it's oversensitivity. I wish all of you could talk to my father or my grandfather who have told me MANY stories of how white people used to ask them why they got upset at being called nigger, or at white actors in black face that ALL acted like they had 0 education or cooth. Now, we all know that's not right because at some point enough people stood up and said that they weren't going to take that crap anymore. If not for that both of those things would still be just fine in our society.
No one dies real quick in FH, that would prove my point better than anything else could. And even if I did I'd just bring them back until I felt like the point was hammered home enough.
Unfortunately, the game does not exist soley in it's own universe. I understand that quite a few people will think it's oversensitivity. I wish all of you could talk to my father or my grandfather who have told me MANY stories of how white people used to ask them why they got upset at being called nigger, or at white actors in black face that ALL acted like they had 0 education or cooth. Now, we all know that's not right because at some point enough people stood up and said that they weren't going to take that crap anymore. If not for that both of those things would still be just fine in our society.
Atrum Draconus
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
Its the concept. As Reid has said, if a person comes into the game and hunts black people but calls themselves the hunters of coal. Would that be ok because we didnt use the term nigger?
The concept remains the same. You are attacking a group based on something.
You make a good point about slippery slope, but I think it is due to being bias against witches that you are not seeing the problem with magic.
I would have a problem, currently, if a player came into game and was fictionally praying to xenu all the time.
I do not have a problem with people mediating on magic, because I do not see magic as real per say. Likewise I do not have a problem with witch hunter. If I accept that magic is real and is taken seriously by a group who call themselves witches, and if I were a witch then I would have a problem with people making lite of my craft.
Hope this makes sense
The concept remains the same. You are attacking a group based on something.
You make a good point about slippery slope, but I think it is due to being bias against witches that you are not seeing the problem with magic.
I would have a problem, currently, if a player came into game and was fictionally praying to xenu all the time.
I do not have a problem with people mediating on magic, because I do not see magic as real per say. Likewise I do not have a problem with witch hunter. If I accept that magic is real and is taken seriously by a group who call themselves witches, and if I were a witch then I would have a problem with people making lite of my craft.
Hope this makes sense
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
Right, I understand the black thing, however there are some huge differences between the two. You can't see faith (barring some extreme religons). I can't just tell you to get out because you are a wiccan.
Second, no one is calling anyone a witch or even refering to it in a manner as per nigger. It's like saying a crayon that is labeled negro is bad. Out of context, sure, but in context, it's spanish and this was a box I picked up in mexico. Witch Hunter to a wiccan with no knowledge of the game sounds bad. In context, it's perfectly acceptable.
When I visit Hamtrammck, I hear a lot of guys calling each other nigger, and in their context it's fine. I'm not comfortable with it (in fact I don't even like typing it), but I'm not going to ram it down their throat (mostly cause I'd get shot). So, in essense, nigger _is_ still perfectly accepted in society.
Second, no one is calling anyone a witch or even refering to it in a manner as per nigger. It's like saying a crayon that is labeled negro is bad. Out of context, sure, but in context, it's spanish and this was a box I picked up in mexico. Witch Hunter to a wiccan with no knowledge of the game sounds bad. In context, it's perfectly acceptable.
When I visit Hamtrammck, I hear a lot of guys calling each other nigger, and in their context it's fine. I'm not comfortable with it (in fact I don't even like typing it), but I'm not going to ram it down their throat (mostly cause I'd get shot
). So, in essense, nigger _is_ still perfectly accepted in society.My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
I honestly hope noone took offence with anything I have said here. I thought we were having an intellectual argument over a situation that will never change in-game anyway, and as the thread goes on I keep sensing a greater amount of needless anger and side-taking, (as any thread about religion is wont to do) and now everything is spiraling towards ever greater amounts of overreactive sarcasm and the throwing of hands into the air.
*sigh*
I first came into this thread wondering how we can escape the hypocrasy of not having fictional religions in the game because that's pushing beliefs on people who don't want them.... when that very act pushes religious beliefs on people who don't support them.
But because it means so little to me other than in purely theoretical reasons, I say fine, keep things the way they are, because the greater number of people who get alienated from the game for real-world reasons weakens the game considerably.
As for magic, (I think) noone is arguing about taking magic out of the game because it's such a crazy idea is doesn't need talking about. It would just make us a SCA group with high soak in the place of King's Rules. Half the reason people Larp is for the fantasy (which magic is innately a part of), which therefore the removal of would negate half the reason to LARP, because almost everything in the entire world of Phanterra functions on the solid fact that in such a world, magic is a real and integral part of everything.
Here's my thought to diffuse things:
How do I, as a craftsman, make a helm? There are currently no rules for making helms as they currently exist.
And why, if I have a helm with enough coverage, does it stop being armor, and start being some sort of symbiotic familiar with a life point and combat reflex, but no armor value?
So I propose the new physrep for a highest-level helm:
*sigh*
I first came into this thread wondering how we can escape the hypocrasy of not having fictional religions in the game because that's pushing beliefs on people who don't want them.... when that very act pushes religious beliefs on people who don't support them.
But because it means so little to me other than in purely theoretical reasons, I say fine, keep things the way they are, because the greater number of people who get alienated from the game for real-world reasons weakens the game considerably.
As for magic, (I think) noone is arguing about taking magic out of the game because it's such a crazy idea is doesn't need talking about. It would just make us a SCA group with high soak in the place of King's Rules. Half the reason people Larp is for the fantasy (which magic is innately a part of), which therefore the removal of would negate half the reason to LARP, because almost everything in the entire world of Phanterra functions on the solid fact that in such a world, magic is a real and integral part of everything.
Here's my thought to diffuse things:
How do I, as a craftsman, make a helm? There are currently no rules for making helms as they currently exist.
And why, if I have a helm with enough coverage, does it stop being armor, and start being some sort of symbiotic familiar with a life point and combat reflex, but no armor value?
So I propose the new physrep for a highest-level helm: