Fist Phys-Reps

[GM-August]

Is the fist phys-rep technically a weapon?

Can a person only use one fist phys-rep or can someone dual-wield fists swinging 0?

Can someone swing a sword with one hand and a fist phys-rep (swinging 0) with the other?

Can a fist phsy-rep be shaped like a billy club (with a small foamed handle out of the middle) or is more like weilding a summer sausage?

Building a sword requires two inches of foam at the tip for it to be legal. When building a fist phys-rep, what is the minimum measurement for a thrusting tip? (i.e. how much foam needs to be at the end of a fist) And because of its special build requirements, does it need the extra foam at both ends?

Do you need a tag for a fist?

The fist cannot have a hilt, but can it have a guard?

Can you really have an 18" fist?

[dier_cire]

Is the fist phys-rep technically a weapon?

yes, however it doesn't fall under any weapon focus category.

Can a person only use one fist phys-rep or can someone dual-wield fists swinging 0?

only one, it's right in the skill.

Can someone swing a sword with one hand and a fist phys-rep (swinging 0) with the other?

not unless you have some form of dual wield.

Can a fist phsy-rep be shaped like a billy club (with a small foamed handle out of the middle) or is more like weilding a summer sausage?

summer sausage, sort of. See below.

Building a sword requires two inches of foam at the tip for it to be legal. When building a fist phys-rep, what is the minimum measurement for a thrusting tip? (i.e. how much foam needs to be at the end of a fist) And because of its special build requirements, does it need the extra foam at both ends?

same as any other weapon. You aren't "punching" with a fist. You swing it like a regular weapon. Again, see below.

Do you need a tag for a fist?

no

The fist cannot have a hilt, but can it have a guard?

no, since the guard is part of the hilt. Technically "guard" would have been the more proper term. A fist looks like a white corndog with a pommel. (this is the see below section)

Can you really have an 18" fist?

yes, including the handle and pommel (ie you only get ~12" of useable distance)

[General Maximus]

I have created some 18" claws and they work great! A 18" weapon is a nice size dagger.

[Kalphoenix]

That's not a knife. THIS is a KNIFE. ><

[GM-August]

Can a person only use one fist phys-rep or can someone dual-wield fists swinging 0?

only one, it's right in the skill.

I asked because the skill wasn't clear to me. It makes much more sense now that you explained it.

Can a fist phsy-rep be shaped like a billy club (with a small foamed handle out of the middle) or is more like weilding a summer sausage?

summer sausage, sort of.

Didn't really answer my question. Although this might better be answered in a different thread about weapon shapes.

The fist cannot have a hilt, but can it have a guard?

no, since the guard is part of the hilt. Technically "guard" would have been the more proper term. A fist looks like a white corndog with a pommel. (this is the see below section)

I see! I looked for a more technical definition of a 'hilt' and you are indeed correct. The hilt is technically made up of a cross-guard, grip, and a pommel. The EXACT WORDING of the build is no hilt. Now if it is indeed a corndog shaped weapon, then the wording should be changed, otherwise the wording says they have to be summer sausages. (I love calling them that. Really brings home that meaty fist stereotype.)


The reason I asked if it was a weapon is a few skills use the word weapon in the description. Other skills call out fist phys-reps as different then weapons. Just wondering if these weapon only skills apply to fist phys-reps as well.

For example, Determination says you cannot use a weapon, but can you use a fist phys-rep to swing 0 if someone is hovering over you?

What about using Rage with a fist phys-rep?

Barbarian Crush says you can use a fist phys-rep to do the crush damage, but Swashbuckler Vorpal cannot, is this correct?

Weapon Focus states that you can use a fist phys-rep in addition to the normal weapon type to do additional damage, am I reading that correctly?
(As an asside, Pike Man has a different definition for weapon focus than the others)

Enchant Weapon says it can enchant any weapon, does this include fist phys-reps?

Can you remove a limb with a fist phys-rep?

Can you use the Grenadier skills with a fist phys-rep? The definition says 'any packet driven skill that is not otherwise stated in the skill'.

Thats all I can think of right now... If I find any more, I'll make sure to post them...

[General Maximus]

You are trying to hard. Rember, the people who wrote the rules are not lawyers. Follow the spirit of the rules and not try to find loop holes that arn't there.

What about using Rage with a fist phys-rep?
Skills and hero points can be used to increase a fist’s damage. Rage is a skill that can increase ones fist damage.

Barbarian Crush says you can use a fist phys-rep to do the crush damage, but Swashbuckler Vorpal cannot, is this correct?
need a blunt weapon to use crush, a fist is a blunt, so yes, you canswing crush with a fist. Vorpal requires an edged weapon.


Weapon Focus states that you can use a fist phys-rep in addition to the normal weapon type to do additional damage, am I reading that correctly?
(As an asside, Pike Man has a different definition for weapon focus than the others)
You are reading it wrong, it say's (This skill may not be used in conjunction with the Rage skill unless the Knight is only using a single
weapon phys-rep (including fists)) Which means you can not be dual wielding a weapon and a fist and use rage to get the extra rage and weapon focus bonus together.


Enchant Weapon says it can enchant any weapon, does this include fist phys-reps?
Yes, you should be able to enchant your fist to swing magic damage with the skill, but not the spell.

Can you remove a limb with a fist phys-rep?
Roleplay it out, can a person rip off a limb? No, you need a sharp tool to do so. So the answer is NO.

Can you use the Grenadier skills with a fist phys-rep? The definition says 'any packet driven skill that is not otherwise stated in the skill'.

No, gernader is about throwing stuff.

[GM-August]

Let me preface this with a quick disclaimer, after I wrote this, I realized that if someone were to read this under the assumption that I am upset, there could be a very akward tone about it. I assure you all, I am not upset, just curious and talkative. Read on!


I'm not trying too hard nor am I finding loophole that aren't there. They are there, thats the problem. I'm just pointing out simple inconsistencies in the rule book. I think that most people don't understand that a rule book is for RULES. You don't go to the book to learn something you already know, you use it if you've never played the game before to understand how its played or to look something up that you don't understand very well. What I've pointed is just for clarification, or because I didn't quite grasp what the 'spirit' of the rule was.

The rage skill says it increases the damage of a 'melee weapon' so I wasn't sure if a fist phys-rep counted as a melee weapon in this particular instance.

As for weapon focus, I believe its confusing. I (think I) understand the spirit of the rule, but with that particular wording, it confuses me, hence I asked for clarification.

It states, "(This skill may not be used in conjunction with the Rage skill unless the Knight is only using a single weapon phys-rep (including fists)".

So if a knight were to use only a fist phys-rep, it SOUNDS like the knight would be able to use a fist phys-rep with this skill, which is counter-intuitive. So what I thought the rule was supposed to be might not be what the rule actually does. With the recent rules changes and such, I don't know whether or not its meant that way. This is why I asked for clarification.

Besides, if I've never played the game before, and I read this rule book, how do I know what the 'spirit' of the game is? I've been around long enough to understand what it probably means, but still in my short time here, there have been a lot of changes, so its hard to pin down a particular 'spirit of the game'.

As for grenadier, it should probably be added into the grenadier skills that they cannot use them in conjunction with a fist phys-rep. The rules say the grenadier can, regardless of the 'spirit' of the rule, which again is why I asked for clarification.

[cole45]

Jared is pointing out the basic flaw of the "spirit" of the rules. What is the spirit of the rule and who do you ask? A gm? a pc? you'll get a BUNCH of different answers.

[WayneO42]

Looks like we have two volunteers to co-ordinate the FAQ section These are all things that can be covered there. If we covered every contingency in the rulebook it would be 500 pages. The problem with the GMs writing the questions for the FAQ is the fact that its all clear to us. In fact, I thought the wording in the book for the things above was quite clear. Here is a good question for the FAQ


What is "The Spirit of the Rules"?
The spirit of the rules, it is to make it fair and even for everyone and to allow everyone to have fun without ruining anyone elses fun. If the wording of a skill seems to give you extra powers that dont quite seem balanced or fair, you read it wrong. If you cant just go with that and have fun without ruining it for others, then you probably wont be happy at FH in the long term.

[General Maximus]

So if a knight were to use only a fist phys-rep, it SOUNDS like the knight would be able to use a fist phys-rep with this skill, which is counter-intuitive. So what I thought the rule was supposed to be might not be what the rule actually does. With the recent rules changes and such, I don't know whether or not its meant that way. This is why I asked for clarification.

The knight also says "The Knight gains +1 damage while using a sword or non-throwing dagger" How is a fist considered a sword or dagger?

As for grenadier, it should probably be added into the grenadier skills that they cannot use them in conjunction with a fist phys-rep. The rules say the grenadier can, regardless of the 'spirit' of the rule, which again is why I asked for clarification.
Im confused on this statement. Are you asking, can you use a fist/weapon and throw stuff with the gernader skill? I would say no unless you have duel wield.

[Peace420]

I guess that's where my confusion is, why would people assume you can use 2 weapons of any type, fist or other without the appropriate skill? You can't put every situation in the book or try and clarify every thing that should already be clear.

[cole45]

yah. I mean why would people think you can hold things in both hands. wait you can sometimes, and not other times,....

[WayneO42]

It used to say in the Combat section under "Dealing Damage with a Weapon" that you could only use one weapon at a time unless you had skills that allowed duel weild. I looked in the new book and that little section is gone...hmmm. Well, once again, a good thing for an FAQ

[dier_cire]

Simple rule. Taking sentences out of context and then saying they don't make sense does not equal a hole. That logic doesn't work in real life, nor does it here.

example: weapon focus. Yes, the single sentence is confusing when posted alone, but directly above this it say quite clearly that you only get the bonus when wielding a specific weapon type. The reason for the "(including fists)" is to avoid confusion whether someone could dual wield a fist and a weapon and still use rage and weapon focus. It can be removed but we'll get that exact question.

As for grenadier, yes, you could use all the skills there since they are packet driven. Wasn't really intended but It's not like you can't do all that crap other ways anyway. For note: it's still a thrown weapon so no you can't use rage for 3.

Now, as for crush, the intention was for fists to be their own weapon type (ie not blunt). This isn't clear. Not sure how big of a deal it is. So for now, yes.

As for ripping someone's limb off, yes you could. Is it dumb? Yeah. Is it legal? yeah. Should you do it? probably not.

[Peace420]

Where in any combat scenario can you use more than one weapon or charge more than 1 thing without a skill that says you can, with the only exception being using a shield? I'm not trying to be a jackhole, I'm just trying to point out that taking sentences out of context and making assumptions that a rule may work different because of weapon type isn't a reason to start adding all sorts of stuff to the rules or even an FAQ. I have no idea why the wording saying you can only use one weapon at a time got removed, but that certainly needs to go back into in the rulebook.