FinalHavenLarp.com

Current Point Values for Donations

Boffer Weapons
One Handed Weapon, Bladed or Claw-----------------200
One Handed Weapon, Headed-----------------------250
Two Handed Weapon, Bladed------------------------300
Two Handed Weapon, Headed-----------------------400
Fist or Dagger------------------------------------100
Polearm-----------------------------------------400
Shields------------------------------------------500
Bows--------------------------------------------750
Arrows------------------------------------------100 each
Armor-------------------------------------------Varies
Square Sewn Packets-------------------------------20 each
Rubber Band Packets-------------------------------10 each

Garb - Actual point value will be determined by a GM at donation time
Tabards (72" by 30" rectangle with a head hole) --------400 and up
Sashes-------------------------------------------250 and up
Shirts--------------------------------------------400 and up
Cloaks-------------------------------------------600 and up
Robes--------------------------------------------600 and up
Masks--------------------------------------------250 and up
Prosthetics (Nose, Teeth, Horns, Ears, etc.)-------------250 and up
Make up------------------------------------------250 per 2 OZ and up

OOG Help
Tarps--------------------------------------------350
Storage Bins---------------------------------------300
Cash---------------------------------------------50 per $1
NPC for a full day or more---------------------------1000

Current Point Values for Rewards
Note: Only 1000 points can be redeemed each event!

Grab Bag, Minor------------------------------------300
Grab Bag, Medium----------------------------------500
Grab Bag, Major------------------------------------1000

Resources and Items
Basic (Food, Supplies, Hide) --------------------------200
Uncommon (Steel, Cloth) ----------------------------250
Magic Component ----------------------------------75
Mystic--------------------------------------------300
Commodities--------------------------------------800
Weapon Tag---------------------------------------300
Armor Tag----------------------------------------400 per location
Quality Armor -------------------------------------750 per location
Advanced Focus Item-------------------------------600
Master Focus Item----------------------------------900
Basic Alchemy Lab----------------------------------150
Advanced Alchemy Lab------------------------------300
Master Alchemy Lab--------------------------------600

Potions
Basic---------------------------------------------100
Advanced-----------------------------------------200
Master-------------------------------------------400

Silver --------------------------------------------50 each
Wealth Level (Only purchased at checkout)--------------1000
1 Level-------------------------------------------250

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Please check this thread before considering your donation. We will post lists prior to each event covering what we most need (though donations are always welcome!)




1) Great idea...wish I had thought to suggest that....

2) Point values are 10 times what they need to be. I doubt there willever be a donation with less value than a single spell packet, so giving 10 instead of 1 is silly and complicated all the accounting. Values should be 1/10 what they are. That would still keep the relitave values the same.
Relative values are a bit off as well.

3) Will this system, or something similar be initiated at FH?

1)

2) I'd rather do 125 points for something rather than 12.5. Magical Components are currently 75 points at WH, and the list is subject to be changed and added to if necessary, having it be an order of magnitude bigger makes it easier to make smaller changes.

3) I hope so.

I think some of the relative values need to be looked at. I think its a bit off to give 1000 for NPCing for a one day or a weekend, one day should be half of a full event.
Currently the list states that you(WH staff) feel that getting 4 levels should be the same cost as a single wealth level or 5 steel, since the level are permenant and the rest are not I think the levels are undervalued or the other items are over valued.
I had suggested a solid methond for determining a base line, but thats locked up on a forum I can no longer get to, seems it made some people terse.

I'm on the other side of things. I don;t think there should be rewards for anything past levels for NPCing. You help out because it makes the game better. That's why I do it.

One clarification.

Them WH staff and us FH staff are the same when it comes to rules so the points posted are the points we would post if we were posting which we may at sometime do.

Since this is the first time we have implemented any point system feel free to critique and we may choose to adjust.

I don;t think there should be rewards for anything past levels for NPCing.

I think that's your issue, your thinking a player gets 4 levels AND these points for NPCing. They don't. Wit with this system, they simply get the freedom to chose things besides levels if they want to.
It also rewards those that don't NPC but support and help the game in other ways. Without this, only SOME of those supporting the game are getting recognition.

You help out because it makes the game better. That's why I do it.

It makes the game better...for those that are playing the event. So saying the staff should not reward those giving the GMs new or rebuilt , safe, and cool looking weapon and shield phys reps; or better costuming and make up so the players dint have to say " what is that?" or "why is the bear wearing burlap and wearing three different color make up because NPC camp was out of baby wiped and they couldn't clean off the dark elf and dwarf make up well enough; or helping them organize the gear and props so there is less delay when sending out NPCs and smoother check in and out; or allowing for NPCs to wear accurate costumes so we know the guys in armor are warriors likely and the one in the silk with the staff is likely a caster so the immersion and PCs ability to use their skills to for the best effect as opposed to hey look 6 NPCs in green ratty tabards and the staff says 3 are fighters...hell if i can recall which three they pointed out; is just commentary that is narrow of vision of the big picture and a bit selfish. Were I the only voice I would set even higher enticements for NPCs because more NPCs means a better event, period. I would make it a real hard choice as to play or NPC for those who are undecided.


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The base line the GMs need to set is what would you be willing to give a player for NPCing a weekend if you were unable to give them levels. So how many steel would be a fair reward. How many basic weapons. How many quality armor location tags, how much in game coin is fair?
Same goes for the other side of the equation. What effort would be the same as NPCing for a full weekend? How many spell packets are the same as NPCing for a weekend? How many axe phys reps do you feel is a fair equitable value.
Eventually you will know that 4 levels is equal to x steel or y location of quality medium armor tags or z spell packet donations ...and so on. Once you have that its like a Rosetta (SP) stone for your point system. then just set NPCing as a number that's fairly easy to divide into smaller pieces. I think 1000 for a weekend isn't bad, and that makes a level 250 to buy which you can earn by donating 25 spell packets. Once you have this you have the ruler to make your donation and reward "appraisals" consistent.


Some things to keep in mind...

Commodities should be much pricier than the total of the resources it takes to make them, because you have to add in the value of the skills needed to combine the resources .

Alchemy labs should be the same as the number of magical components it takes to but one, since there is NO skill needed to make one(as I understand it)

Magical components should be MORE than 1/4 a mystic, this to needs a skill to make the resources into the components.

With the current rewards for wealth levels, one level is NOT worth the effort of NPCing for an event.

i have not been here for ages and i might be reading this wrong but

do you still get 4 levels for NPCing?

if so do you get the 1000 points as well?

if so can you then get 8 levels by NPCing and spending your points on levels?

seems kind of silly if you can, after all your character is safe from everything whilst you NPC, and they are somehow getting stronger while there not doing anything?

if anything you should get less levels for NPCing. . .yeah you heard me all you cowards

Point system replaces other stuff

Not thrilled with the Pay to Win system, but I haven't been around to argue for/against and haven't played much anyway so, whatever. It's helped by the fact that you will supposedly only be able to redeem 1000 points an event. Overall, I don't think the values are too bad.

I have one major issue: May I suggest the possibility of an addendum being discussed? I'd like to see points ONLY being redeemable at an event where you are in game and PC (NOT NPC) for a day or more ON THAT CHARACTER. 1,000 per game limit or not, I DESPISE the idea of someone being able to bank money/donations for benefits and stockpile them behind the scenes every event and not even have to be present for it. I also don't want to see PCs able to spend points on other player's PCs. These are quite literally really my only game-breaking concerns, and I don't think I would have any other complaints with the system otherwise. For one, it's cheesy, for two, I feel it is an unfair advantage, and for three, it feels similar to letting PCs trade items to another one of their own PCs, which also feels cheesy and I THOUGHT was discouraged. I basically don't want to see PC's able to "stockpile" in the background via OOG actions with no threat to their character. You want to buy stuff? You need to be there, in-character.

I don't even have a problem with allowing people to purchase items/equipment with points at check-in with the promise that they fully intend to play THAT character for at least a day's worth of the event, for folks who say, were bringing in a new character and wanted to spend the points on equipment tags, unless there became an issue of abuse (Which would be cheating anyway). If that were the case you could simply only allow point redemption at checkout.

Basically, I'd like to see something like this:

"You may only redeem points for benefits on a character at an event where you play that character for at least one day. You may not redeem points while NPCing or for benefits on a character you are not playing at the event. Points are non-transferable, you may only redeem points on your own characters, you may not spend or gift them on characters played by other PCs (although you could choose to purchase material benefits such as equipment tags and trade them in game, provided you met the requirement for purchasing them)."

It's not perfect, I still see the potential of abuse, short of disallowing trading of point items altogether I don't know what would stop it (Perhaps aside from taking resources off the table and only offering finished item tags and the DIRECT perks, such as levels), but I think this would be a somewhat better step in the right direction.

Kalphoenix wrote: May I suggest the possibility of an addendum being discussed? I'd like to see points ONLY being redeemable at an event where you are in game and PC (NOT NPC) for a day or more ON THAT CHARACTER. 1,000 per game limit or not, I DESPISE the idea of someone being able to bank money/donations for benefits and stockpile them behind the scenes every event and not even have to be present for it.

*nods aprovingly*

Other than levels, I really don't think any players should be able to get items without doing in-game things for them, whether that be adventuring, stealing from others, using the political system to their advantage, etc. Basically anything where there is a risk to balance the reward.

Not sure what to say as I don't want to sound like we are dismissing anyone's opinions, but this has been discussed so there is no need to debate the subject again. We understand that there is a group of players who do not like the idea of people gaining in game benefits for doing out of game things. In the end the stuff players can get are very minimal well except for levels that is pretty major yet people are more concerned about healing potions. It is strange to me, yet we have heard the arguments and we are going forth with the point system.

I hope this doesn't sound uncaring I don't mean it to be but hard to show empathy in type.

Not thrilled with the Pay to Win system,

Its a rewarding effort system, not a pay to win system. Anyone that thinks you can win a role playing game is playing for the wrong reason.

I'd like to see points ONLY being redeemable at an event where you are in game and PC (NOT NPC) for a day or more ON THAT CHARACTER.

Sooo.. I NPC for a year and get points buy can never turn the points in because I didn't PC? Uhm no.

1,000 per game limit or not, I DESPISE the idea of someone being able to bank money/donations for benefits and stockpile them behind the scenes every event and not even have to be present for it.

How is that any different than a PC that never comes into town, just hides in the woods and gathers things with his skills and contacts and is never at risk? Don't say it cant be done, because it can.

I feel it is an unfair advantage,

If you feel the advantage of being rewarded for helping out, make sure your helping out too so you too can get the same chances at the rewards...problem solved and goal of the system met. Two birds with one stone.

it feels similar to letting PCs trade items to another one of their own PCs

...you mean...like choosing which PC gets the 4 levels you acquired when you NPCed? Not any different than NPCing and using the points between two PCs...or NPCing and giving 2 levels to PC A and 2 levels to PC B.
The point system isn't any different from the 4 levels for NPCing an event system they have used all along, except it doesn't force feed just one reward, they get to pick their reward.

Points are non-transferable, you may only redeem points on your own characters, (although you could choose to purchase material benefits such as equipment tags and trade them in game, provided you met the requirement for purchasing them)."

Since you point out the player could just get the tags and hand em over, its moot to restrict the use of points of Player A being used to benefit player B.

Other than levels, I really don't think any players should be able to get items without doing in-game things for them, whether that be adventuring, stealing from others, using the political system to their advantage, etc. Basically anything where there is a risk to balance the reward.

I basically don't want to see PC's able to "stockpile" in the background via OOG actions with no threat to their character.

There are skills that do this very thing, give a PC in game items when he isn't in game and at risk. To ban the point system form doing that very same thing is silly.

As I mentioned there is really no need to debate this issue, unless of course you all enjoy debate. I tend to enjoy debate so I can see why you would, but of course it is just between you all.

i posted before seeing your reply...