Ok, first.. how about 2 Lp for an instant Cure poison/Disease.. Thoughts are in a battle, yes the healer as to decide whether to risk the LP to cure or the time.. but gves them options.. Outside of battle it rarely matters how much time it takes and let me tell you it sucks standing around after a battle waiting for 5 people to get cure poisoned by your one or two healers.. This would speed things up.. and they still have to pick that skill over the other basic skill.
Improved utilize resource - Updated.. this was how I originally envisioned it anyways..
The basic healing not stacking with the Mass heal is fine too.. obviously would be cool, but I can see why not.
3 cap on Improved Concentrate Magic seems to be the overal concensus.. again if anyone has other ideas for this skill i am all ears.
The 15 for 15 was a typo.. was supposed to be 30 for 15, or 5 magic vorpal or 5 magic crush.. updated.. the 30 for 15 is back in line with the normal skill.
The improved defensive Matrix is the same as the original.. only takes away movement, but allows your back to be proteceted.. i thought taking away movement would balance out the seeming invulnerability of the skill.. especially since all you could do is stand there, hope nothing can hit hared than 1 and watch your comrades die..(hehe).
Improved Rage was taken from the most liked suggestion I saw in the other thread..
*NEW* Master Warrior skill added.. could replace either of the others in desired.
The Hold Ground to the rear is potentially powerful, I agree.. I would almost like to see some playtesting of this one.. I see it being very situational..
The other was taken from your Advanced skill sets, it wa was mentioned that people liked it, I kinda like it so put it as an option.
Improved spot would conceal anything of "Tiny" (reduced from small i forgot daggers were made Tiny size now).. which is in the rulebook for about how big it can be. if there are other ideas about what to do to spot then I am all ears.
Improved research - how about alos adding that if you research only 1 thing you get a reduced time?
And Cr vs LP.. that is probably a whole other discussion.. In the game you have Vigor - which grants 1 Lp and Combat reflexes whcih grants 2 CR.. bot skills are generally used at approxmatley the same level of skill so I assumed that 1 LP = 2 Cr in the GM's mind.. perhaps all Combat refelex skills need to be 1 CR then.. or all Vigor skills ned to be 2 LP?
FeedBack from Players Desired- New Advanced Rules discussion
-
Shea Stonebrook
- Town Member
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:39 pm
- Location: On the way back to Woodhold from traveling with Connor (my husband)
- Contact:
I really like the instant cure poision/disease....in battle it's nearly impossible (nearly) to cure poison or disease...the cost is great, 2 of my LP's is a lot!!
Another healer option would be to be able to do a mass cure poison/disease. That way intsead of 15 min it goes down to 5 for to cure 3.
AS I would want to be protected by a seasoned warrior, rather than an !NG. And as mentioned above 2 LP's is a lot to give up, it's not like awaken where a healer could do it all day with NO COST. It would be a hard decision to make...if someone came up to me and asked me to cure poison and I had to turn them away, OR I begin to spend the 5 min in battle then someone goes into negitives and they take priority over them....could make for some good role playing
Another healer option would be to be able to do a mass cure poison/disease. That way intsead of 15 min it goes down to 5 for to cure 3.
Honestly I've been a master healer for a long time now....and it would make sense to me that people would come to a more "seasoned" healer than a healer that's just learning...wouldn't you go to a known doctor with tons of experiance before someone straight out of medical school?General Maximus wrote:Would not some of the healer skills over shadow the other healers in game? Why would you go to a healer that takes 5 minutes to heal a posion when you can go to this guy who can do it instanenteously? Maybe by spending a life point you cut the time in half or even 3/4. I don;t like the idea of 1 person having the ability to heal the entire of disease or posion in secounds. An even if they had to rest to heal themselves, they still could out strip a normal healer by miles. It's to be big of gap.
AS I would want to be protected by a seasoned warrior, rather than an !NG. And as mentioned above 2 LP's is a lot to give up, it's not like awaken where a healer could do it all day with NO COST. It would be a hard decision to make...if someone came up to me and asked me to cure poison and I had to turn them away, OR I begin to spend the 5 min in battle then someone goes into negitives and they take priority over them....could make for some good role playing
Shea Stonebrook
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Speak the truth, always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong. That is your oath.
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Speak the truth, always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong. That is your oath.
Although I like the idea of a Mass cure poison or Cure Disease, I would probably stay away from it and stick with the Instants.. keeps Healers on their toes and thinking during combats.. "Do I risk my LP with this character or do I have the time?".. as you said could make for some good RPing.
But I definetly would like to keep hearing feedback and ideas from players, especially those that have or are playing the Paths and how they feel about the changes.
Also keep in mind, I am not looking at necessarily making the skills stronger, or more powerful.. although that is pretty much a side-effect of changing them.. What I am truly looking for here is a way to make higher level characters more unique and more experienced mechanically than a lower level character without seriously affecting the flow of the game.
Does this mean I think we NEED Advanced rules..No.. I think FH is a good system the way it is, and the best thing about it, is that it forces peopel to focus on role-playing to make themselves unique in the world, rather than a mechanic system.. but what I have gathered on here, and by talking to people is that they would like something to look forward to as they advance their character.. and so I decided to put my brain to thinking as I really do like working with the mechanics of any system and tried to think of how to give something to experienced characters without making non-experienced characters feel left out, but still wanting thos non-experienced characters to have something to look forward too as well.. and also still keep experienced characters somewhat unique from each other as well.. hence the 2 options per Path skill to improve, that way 2 Healers may pick different improvements and that way be somewhat unique.
But I definetly would like to keep hearing feedback and ideas from players, especially those that have or are playing the Paths and how they feel about the changes.
Also keep in mind, I am not looking at necessarily making the skills stronger, or more powerful.. although that is pretty much a side-effect of changing them.. What I am truly looking for here is a way to make higher level characters more unique and more experienced mechanically than a lower level character without seriously affecting the flow of the game.
Does this mean I think we NEED Advanced rules..No.. I think FH is a good system the way it is, and the best thing about it, is that it forces peopel to focus on role-playing to make themselves unique in the world, rather than a mechanic system.. but what I have gathered on here, and by talking to people is that they would like something to look forward to as they advance their character.. and so I decided to put my brain to thinking as I really do like working with the mechanics of any system and tried to think of how to give something to experienced characters without making non-experienced characters feel left out, but still wanting thos non-experienced characters to have something to look forward too as well.. and also still keep experienced characters somewhat unique from each other as well.. hence the 2 options per Path skill to improve, that way 2 Healers may pick different improvements and that way be somewhat unique.
I really dont like the D. matrix idea, to me the whole point of that was to be able to move, that way that person(s) could be at the front of the group going through the cave absorbing blows, with the new one its a weird hold ground, For Rage couldnt you just increase the damage to 2, so if you swing 1 you could rage and do 3, and i dont see how to make parry any weaker than what you have it as, back parry is out of the question.....what if you added ranged block to parry, so you could block arrows but no 30 booms?
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
Well first let me point out that all the skills here are just add-ons to the original.. if you still wish to use the skill in it's original form it was meant to be that you could.. so with Defensive MAtrix, if you wanted to reduce everything by 1 from the front and move you could.. but if you were reducing things by 1 from both the front and rear, then you should be standing still..Perhaps that needs to go in the Improved skill description.
As for Improved Rage, i am staying away form adding any skills that outright increase damage.. I truly believe 3 should be the best a character should be able to swing (not counting Hero points).. and if you hear a 4 call you know something bad is happening.
For Improved Parry, I would stay away from Ranged parries.. opens up a big can of worms.. I like the current one as is.. Reasons for changing it?
As for Improved Rage, i am staying away form adding any skills that outright increase damage.. I truly believe 3 should be the best a character should be able to swing (not counting Hero points).. and if you hear a 4 call you know something bad is happening.
For Improved Parry, I would stay away from Ranged parries.. opens up a big can of worms.. I like the current one as is.. Reasons for changing it?
-
General Maximus
- Town Member
- Posts: 1004
- Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:25 am
Here is some more feedback.
The instant heal posion or disease is just broken no matter how much life it costs. I can build a charcter that can half the town before they need to heal themselves. I can see spending 1 life to to take 1 minute ot heal a posin or disease. It makes the skill combat effective now.
The 5 questions add on to torture is way broken. The pwoer level jumper up by 5. That is a huge jump. Shouldn't it be just 2 or 3 questions per torture?
The master roughe avoid ability is to weak. They should have the ability to charge up an evade for a 60 count. Can only have 1 evade activate. An evade allows a charcter to avoid 1 mellee or packet driven effect. Can use the evade when ever. Once charged the evade can not be disrupted.
Here is an idea for rage, keep what has been added, and than add this ability. You can spend 5 life to cool down instantly. This would allow a warrior to drop rage to use a defensive skill but at a cost of 5 life. Is very useful!
The instant heal posion or disease is just broken no matter how much life it costs. I can build a charcter that can half the town before they need to heal themselves. I can see spending 1 life to to take 1 minute ot heal a posin or disease. It makes the skill combat effective now.
The 5 questions add on to torture is way broken. The pwoer level jumper up by 5. That is a huge jump. Shouldn't it be just 2 or 3 questions per torture?
The master roughe avoid ability is to weak. They should have the ability to charge up an evade for a 60 count. Can only have 1 evade activate. An evade allows a charcter to avoid 1 mellee or packet driven effect. Can use the evade when ever. Once charged the evade can not be disrupted.
Here is an idea for rage, keep what has been added, and than add this ability. You can spend 5 life to cool down instantly. This would allow a warrior to drop rage to use a defensive skill but at a cost of 5 life. Is very useful!
Ok i just have to say this.. a 2LP Instant cure poison or disease is cool.. I have no idea how you can say it is broken.. more powerful than it is now, yes.. Broken.. we must have different ideas on that..
5 Questions for torture.. again Broken.. doubtful.. useful and more powerful than the current one yes..
The big thing here is that a character will only get to choose one Improved skill from Basic, Advanced and Master.. and I believe the skills should be worth thinking over..
Now for 1 LP and still spending a minute to cure poison or disease.. is it a good idea, yes.. Does it have the pazazz and heroism of an instant ability.. no.. is it Broken, again I say no.. but in the end it will be what, I, you and thep players have to say about it, and in finally what the GM's want and like.
As for the Rage idea, I could get behind it, it is something at least.. I doubt I would ever do it, but then again I like the situational feel of it. That is truly what I tried to add to a lot of these skills.. uses that had a cost, were a bit better than the original but in a situation could be more heroic for them.
Finally after saying the other skills are Broken, telling me the Master Rogue Avoid ability is too weak almost made me laugh (in a good way).. That was one of the skills I saw as one of the more powerful ones.
5 Questions for torture.. again Broken.. doubtful.. useful and more powerful than the current one yes..
The big thing here is that a character will only get to choose one Improved skill from Basic, Advanced and Master.. and I believe the skills should be worth thinking over..
Now for 1 LP and still spending a minute to cure poison or disease.. is it a good idea, yes.. Does it have the pazazz and heroism of an instant ability.. no.. is it Broken, again I say no.. but in the end it will be what, I, you and thep players have to say about it, and in finally what the GM's want and like.
As for the Rage idea, I could get behind it, it is something at least.. I doubt I would ever do it, but then again I like the situational feel of it. That is truly what I tried to add to a lot of these skills.. uses that had a cost, were a bit better than the original but in a situation could be more heroic for them.
Finally after saying the other skills are Broken, telling me the Master Rogue Avoid ability is too weak almost made me laugh (in a good way).. That was one of the skills I saw as one of the more powerful ones.
-
General Maximus
- Town Member
- Posts: 1004
- Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:25 am
When my mind starts to think of ways to exploite the rule suggestion I know the skills are broken. Yes they are cool and none combat, but they can still break the balance of the game.
The only way a instant heal would not be broken is if it cost 5 life points, even than it is questionable. By making it instant the you have given the people around the healer resist posion and disease. Not cool.
Torture, Yes it is cool and will speed up the interactive time, but the power boost is to great.
As for resit lash, how many times have you been hit by a lash damage call in game? Very infrequent and they are typical low damage calls. So it make the skill underpowered.
I have to other changes.
Parry - Parrying a lash does not make much sense. So here is another idea. The warrior now can parry any frontal melle and ranged attack. the range attacks must have a number to be able to be parried. The warrior can not parry any ranged attacks that have MAGIC in the call.
The master empath ability is to over much. get rid of the 15 damage for shorter time. Causes to many problems.
Now I agree with the crush and vorpal attack, but you only get 1 of the attacks, not both.
The only way a instant heal would not be broken is if it cost 5 life points, even than it is questionable. By making it instant the you have given the people around the healer resist posion and disease. Not cool.
Torture, Yes it is cool and will speed up the interactive time, but the power boost is to great.
As for resit lash, how many times have you been hit by a lash damage call in game? Very infrequent and they are typical low damage calls. So it make the skill underpowered.
I have to other changes.
Parry - Parrying a lash does not make much sense. So here is another idea. The warrior now can parry any frontal melle and ranged attack. the range attacks must have a number to be able to be parried. The warrior can not parry any ranged attacks that have MAGIC in the call.
The master empath ability is to over much. get rid of the 15 damage for shorter time. Causes to many problems.
Now I agree with the crush and vorpal attack, but you only get 1 of the attacks, not both.
Ok, for one, the shorter timed 15 magic was a typo and has been reworded to be back in line with the original skill..
Two, from the time I have played this game you and Reid have always been the rule explotiers.. finding a lot of different combos that probably shouldn't be.. so I don't see how that is different here.. I value yours and Reids opinions.. even if I don't always agree with them.
As for an instant cure being a resist as long as you are around a healer.. well that is true, essentially.. of course the healer has to decide to spend those LP to do it, and if the healer is close enough to cure you then they are probably close enough to be hit by same attack.. in which case if poisoned they are healing nobody and if diseased they are spending 4 life to cure.. Still not seeing a problem here.
As for Torture... I think playtesting is the only way to decide what the appropiate number of questions could be.. I stil think 3-5 is best..
As for resist Lash a sa rogue.. well when I played Ian I was hit by at least 3-4 Lash attacks an event.. on average.. besides.. it is not about making the skills more powerful.. just more useful.. which will still make them more powerful than the original skill.
Two, from the time I have played this game you and Reid have always been the rule explotiers.. finding a lot of different combos that probably shouldn't be.. so I don't see how that is different here.. I value yours and Reids opinions.. even if I don't always agree with them.
As for an instant cure being a resist as long as you are around a healer.. well that is true, essentially.. of course the healer has to decide to spend those LP to do it, and if the healer is close enough to cure you then they are probably close enough to be hit by same attack.. in which case if poisoned they are healing nobody and if diseased they are spending 4 life to cure.. Still not seeing a problem here.
As for Torture... I think playtesting is the only way to decide what the appropiate number of questions could be.. I stil think 3-5 is best..
As for resist Lash a sa rogue.. well when I played Ian I was hit by at least 3-4 Lash attacks an event.. on average.. besides.. it is not about making the skills more powerful.. just more useful.. which will still make them more powerful than the original skill.
I'm not really all that concearned if a healer wants to spend the life points to heal half of the town. The only time where this will be more useful over the 5 minute time to cure is during combat. If a healer wants to spend the life in combat to heal poison, I think that is cool. It does need to be clear in the skill though that you cannot cure yourself.As for an instant cure being a resist as long as you are around a healer.. well that is true, essentially.. of course the healer has to decide to spend those LP to do it, and if the healer is close enough to cure you then they are probably close enough to be hit by same attack.. in which case if poisoned they are healing nobody and if diseased they are spending 4 life to cure.. Still not seeing a problem here.
Wayne O
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
-
General Maximus
- Town Member
- Posts: 1004
- Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 6:25 am
How do you play test a roleplaying skill (torture)? 
the torture is all about percenption. It is rearly used and when used, it is used mostly on NPC's. I just have a hard time seeing a jump in power of 5 for a skill. A rise in power of 2 or 3 is more in line. I would go with 3 becaseu the skill is not used very much in game.
Parry and dodging lash goes against what lash is. That is one of the reasons I dislike giving the ability to PC's. It is a good idea, but goes agianst what lash is meant to be.
As for instant anything. It is a bad idea in a game of time based skills. That is why the time reduction for hero points have changed. Reid or I can build a healer that can grant everyone in arms reach a resist posion and still be able to fight in the front lines. Just because most PC healers are not warrior, does not mean the rules do not allow for a warrior healer. You need to balance the rules on the worst case senerio. Not the mid ground.
Right now you can make a dwarven healer that would ahve the following life total with the instant heal posin skill. You tell me if there is anyting wrong with it
Life - 11
Combat reflex - 5 with buff
Armor - 3 with shield
And this is with out any disapline.
Here it is with the palidin disapline,
Life - 13 with buff
Combat reflex - 3
Armor - 3 with shield
instant heal, instant cure posion, resit sleep, resit posion, has a shield and can swing 1 or 2 with hero points. And don't mention the use of your hero points to grant yourself 10 life per point.
You have a kick ass warrior that is the best healer in game. They could stand on the front line and be healing as needed. It gets even worse when you add in quality armor (your soak would be 23 than with a shield)
Now do you see why I have a problem of instant cure posion or disease even if it is at 2 LP. It is way to powerful!
the torture is all about percenption. It is rearly used and when used, it is used mostly on NPC's. I just have a hard time seeing a jump in power of 5 for a skill. A rise in power of 2 or 3 is more in line. I would go with 3 becaseu the skill is not used very much in game.Parry and dodging lash goes against what lash is. That is one of the reasons I dislike giving the ability to PC's. It is a good idea, but goes agianst what lash is meant to be.
As for instant anything. It is a bad idea in a game of time based skills. That is why the time reduction for hero points have changed. Reid or I can build a healer that can grant everyone in arms reach a resist posion and still be able to fight in the front lines. Just because most PC healers are not warrior, does not mean the rules do not allow for a warrior healer. You need to balance the rules on the worst case senerio. Not the mid ground.
Right now you can make a dwarven healer that would ahve the following life total with the instant heal posin skill. You tell me if there is anyting wrong with it
Life - 11
Combat reflex - 5 with buff
Armor - 3 with shield
And this is with out any disapline.
Here it is with the palidin disapline,
Life - 13 with buff
Combat reflex - 3
Armor - 3 with shield
instant heal, instant cure posion, resit sleep, resit posion, has a shield and can swing 1 or 2 with hero points. And don't mention the use of your hero points to grant yourself 10 life per point.
You have a kick ass warrior that is the best healer in game. They could stand on the front line and be healing as needed. It gets even worse when you add in quality armor (your soak would be 23 than with a shield)
Now do you see why I have a problem of instant cure posion or disease even if it is at 2 LP. It is way to powerful!
I think I've been in 3-4 combats with lash total. Of hand I can only recall two. Ed and the disease bugs.
As for a healer getting hit with the same call, not if you are doing things right. Normally, you'll have warriors in the front and the healer either one or two people back. A simple reach forward and poof cure. That's grossly powerful. Considering the life total at that point can easily be 13-15 (max is like 17) that's quite a few uses, especially since the healer isn't under fire. Instant cure poison is very powerful (disease is semi irrelevant as it's a level 1 resist). It's the one hard resist to get and combo with other resists and once you get a healer with this, would be readily available to all warriors who are smart enough to stick close.
As for Rage being able to drop instantly is nice but 3-4 life is probably all that is required (thus 4-5 life total to use the parry/resist that you would use it for). Then the instant drop rage, parry would be worthwhile in very few instances but a 9 vorpal poison or 30 magic would defintely be worth the 5 life cost.
For defensive matrix, I'd think being able to use parries and resists while in it would be awesome and hell 95% of the playerbase uses it that way anyway. (currently all resists cost 2 life while in defensive matrix, 1 to use the resist, the other to reactivate dm).
As for a healer getting hit with the same call, not if you are doing things right. Normally, you'll have warriors in the front and the healer either one or two people back. A simple reach forward and poof cure. That's grossly powerful. Considering the life total at that point can easily be 13-15 (max is like 17) that's quite a few uses, especially since the healer isn't under fire. Instant cure poison is very powerful (disease is semi irrelevant as it's a level 1 resist). It's the one hard resist to get and combo with other resists and once you get a healer with this, would be readily available to all warriors who are smart enough to stick close.
As for Rage being able to drop instantly is nice but 3-4 life is probably all that is required (thus 4-5 life total to use the parry/resist that you would use it for). Then the instant drop rage, parry would be worthwhile in very few instances but a 9 vorpal poison or 30 magic would defintely be worth the 5 life cost.
For defensive matrix, I'd think being able to use parries and resists while in it would be awesome and hell 95% of the playerbase uses it that way anyway. (currently all resists cost 2 life while in defensive matrix, 1 to use the resist, the other to reactivate dm).
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
I am sorry but I think that Ried and Nelkie are playing a differnt game than the rest of us...I have used torture on PC's and had torture used one me alot in the past year. Sometimes it is the only way to get answers and it suck when you can only ask one. So I say that being able to ask like 5 questions in one time would be cool....As for an instant heal poison...What is the differance between that and Mystic heal. In fact it is going to cost more to cure the poison. I Have Played a good Combat healer and I can tell you this...I took a beating and I came cloe to dying a lot...So if it came down to spending Four of my life point to cure poison on someone instantly I would think about that for a second....And yes in a well thought out fight you would try and keep a warrior in front of the healers but 98% of the time it does not happen... I do not know how many times Someone was told to stay with me and the healer to protect me and no less than a minute later i am the one dragging them out of combat to heal them....
So far i like the changes you guys have made to Phils System..There are some things that I think did not need to be changed and have been. But over all I think it is a good Unique system!
So far i like the changes you guys have made to Phils System..There are some things that I think did not need to be changed and have been. But over all I think it is a good Unique system!
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
~Henry David Thoreau~
~Henry David Thoreau~
So the rules should be designed for the players lack of organization? (The answer is no).Laura wrote:I am sorry but I think that Ried and Nelkie are playing a differnt game than the rest of us ... I do not know how many times Someone was told to stay with me and the healer to protect me and no less than a minute later i am the one dragging them out of combat to heal them....
Just because you had lousy warriors, doesn't mean they all are. You must design the rules around the highly organized, perfect group. Anything less and you risk breaking the game.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.