FeedBack from Players Desired- New Advanced Rules discussion

[Zydana]

So the rules should be designed for the players lack of organization? (The answer is no).

You must design the rules around the highly organized, perfect group. Anything less and you risk breaking the game.

Not that I'm one of the game creators, but I would of thought that it would fall somewhere in between.

GM/NPCs should use the fact that players can't organize themselves to their advantage. Also, players, actually remaining organized and working perfectly together should be rewarded.

.. cause you know, the players manage to work as a perfectly organized group just happens soo often.

There is the temptation to NOT work together too and that's the way it should be.

[General Maximus]

The problem with balanceing the rules in the middle is when a group of people who can work together and be orginzied (Which has happened many times) will walk over all the other players and NPC monsters.

It creates rule breaks and eventual makes the game unfun for everyone.

By balanceing to the worst case, you know everthing below will not be broken and balanced. There is a reward for those who work together and are orginzied, they get to use the rules to their full advantage but do not have to worry about unblanceing anything for the other players.

FH is design mechanicaly to be a coperative game. The NPC's do not make that easy, but to gain the full benifit of the mechanics, people need to work in teams. It's just how the rules are.

Now the advanced rules and hero points allow a person to have a chance to stand alone for a short period of time, aka be the hero which seems how most players play. So I'm confused why there is much negtivity. The rules are reflecting the way many people choose to play the game. The rules just let them do what they are doing but with a chance of success.

[Atrum Draconus]

I of course would love to see the rogue with a charged evade, that may mean it's a little over the top. I never relly liked the fact that you HAD to be a warrior or a REALLY good oog fighter to play a combat type rogue. Especially since all of their other skills are either EXTREMELY situational or you have to build and set up traps oog. They're the only path or discipline that makes you build anything. Haven does make you have a tent but you can lay a blanket over any L shaped piece of anything and there you have it. But I do agree that lash is so rarely if ever used and master rogues have avoid trap already so the immune to trap part really isn't anything.

I have no problem with people being able to avoid Lash, especially since lash is only 5 ft in this game. It's not that hard to imagine Yoda or an acrobat bouncing out of the reach of a lash attack.

[Zeira]

Improved Spot: 1/2 time for searches. Simple yet useful.

[GM_Chris]

Just a note, when balancing a system you need to balance against the power gamer or min/maxer if you prefer the second term. This way you make sure that the high's are not too high. Also, you need to be cognisent of the lows and make sure that the completely incompetent doesn't hamstring themselves so severly he/she is unable to play the game.

[GM-Phil]

Improved cure poison - we could add that you cannot cure yourself, but if they know the rules of Poison then they shoudl know that they cannot use an LP or time-based skills while poisoned..

Improved Spot - Well Spot already halves the time of basic searches.. How about spending a LP to instantly search a body, and 1 minute to find concealed items on a person.

As for Torture.. whether a skill is rarely used or not is irrevelant.. Although i still say 3-5 would be good.. I do agree no more than 5 though.

And to me if someone wants to build a Dwarven Healer that if he survives long enough can get an Instant Cure poison.. more power to him.. will he be more effective than another Healer.. probably.. will he be broken, I do not see how? I really don't?

As for Improved Avoid Trap - Other than an Evade, any other ideas for this skill.. mind you I tried to keep the flavor of the skill in with what the skil already did.. hence with Avoid Trap you are immune to Trap damage.. therefore it seemed logical that an experienced Rogue with IMproved Avoid trap would then be able to resist all other Lash style attacks.. Again if better suggestions come forward, I would love to hear them.

[General Maximus]

So people don't see an issue that everyone around a healer with instant cure posion has the resist posion skill which is a secound level skill? And how do the assasins who have utlize posion skill feel? It kinda nerfs the skill if you are planning to use it against the PC's.

I played a character who had a melee evade for a couple events and it was nice. It allowed me to not take damage from one source per combat. It was hard to find 60sec to charge up the skill again until the fighting was done. To me it make great sense for a rouge to be able to sneak up and dodge an opponents attacks to get their special skills off. It doesn't make them near as cool as a warrior, but helps them survive the use of their melee intense skills. If people feel it is over powered, have it they can not evade ranged magic damage.

[GM-Phil]

An Evade for a Rogue is definetly something to look at.. it has potential. Just need to decide how much of an Evade it would be. Melee or both Melee and Ranged? What makes the most sense.

And to give you my opinion, no I do not see a Healer with an instant cure poison being a serious issue.. and as I stated before, if an assassin wants to target someone with that skill or someone near that person, then they will have to rely on more than just their mechanical skills.. Also not to bring up an argument, but in the current Advanced rules it is possible to get instant cure's as well.. at a higher level I agree.. but they are still there.

[General Maximus]

I would say the evade works on all melee attack, even none number melee attacks and all non magical ranged attacks.

As for cure posion thing, we are talking 140 for your idea and level 330 for the current advanced rules. It is much easier to rach level 140 than 330 so there would be alot less people with the ability to instantly heal posion. And in the current advanced rules, level 3 skills are suppose to be distgusting and reward a person who has played a chacater that long. That is a total 83 events to reach level 330. That is a alot of time playing the same character.

[WayneO42]

I had some time to run some numbers and think it over last night and I think the answer to the cure poison is somewhere in the middle. The problem with it being purely life points is that you give everyone around you a free 2nd level resist. On the other hand, the problem with just halving the time is that it really isnt that useful. In addition, someone brought up a mass cure poison which I also think is a great idea. Soooo...How about:

This skill allows the Healer to cure poison in up to three targets at one time. The targets cannot move or use any other skill, but they can talk. All individuals being cured must be within arms reach of the Healer, and must have a positive life point total. It takes 5 uninterrupted minutes to cure poison. If one or more targets leave the group of their own accord or are attacked, it does not disrupt the healer performing the cure poison, but it does remove that target from the effects of the skill instantly. In addition, if the healer spends two life points and concentrates their efforts on a single target, they may decrease the time it takes to cure poison to an uniterupted 30 seconds. The target may not use any skills while being cured and must be in contact with the healer.

This gives some versitility without creating a moving resist. It is still more efficient in a non combat situation to take the time to cure people but it doesnt out strip a current healer. It takes the same amount of time but the improved healer can just do more people at one time. Also, it allows for a "Combat Cure" at a fairly substantial cost but it still slows down the group to some extent.

[General Maximus]

I love the idea!!

[Atrum Draconus]

I like that alot Wayne, versatility is really what I'd like to see in advanced skills since to me that is where this game is lacking the most.

Utilize poison is a fairly useless normal combat skill, unless you also have lots of daggers to break off in people and can walk around holding them all all the time. Which I'd never do as I see it as cheese but the rules almost say that's what you should do. Or have about 2 minutes charge time to do vorpals. It's really meant for use against the boss or other PC's. So I don't think it really matters much, I can't imagine that once you stab someone their thoughts are gonn abe where is a healer that can do life point poison cures. In fact it could only really work to our advantage in fights, the NPC's poison would be the most nerfed.

Are there different ways that evade works? Don't all evades work the same way? If not that's rather silly and a cheesy way to get around not having a lot of different defensive calls. Aaron wouldn't using an evade disrupt you?

[General Maximus]

Erik, I see your point and evade creates to many mechaincal issues than it's worth. Thinking about it, I don't think it would be worth creating a new call.

I think another skill is required. I would like to do some type of defensive skill. But not sure what.

Set traps - I like the idea of cutting the time in half, but to make it worth it, a trapper should be able to spend a life and do a 5 count to set a trap. This would allow a person to set many traps very fast if they have the equipment. To me, that would make the advanced skill worth it. Right now 1 minute or 30 secs does not matter becasue you could not use the trap skill in combat very easly. Only taking 5 secs, you could use it in combat and might increase the use of traps by the PC's. You could actualy make a trap PC which can use traps in combat effectly.

[Atrum Draconus]

Other defensive skill possibilities.

2 hits to be disrupted

Can use 1 resist once and not be disrupted.

Can move while charging (although I think this was discussed for the empath)

Passwall

Can you tell I spend ALOT of time standing around counting only to be foiled.

And I'm not saying that evade is a bad skill, only that it needs to work across the board the exact same way.

[General Maximus]

I like the 2 hits to be disrupted. It makes sense and what the rouge needs to be able to get their skills off in most cases. You still can be easly disrupted, but could give you the advantage you need.

I will think on it to see if there is any breaks this might create.