A Question about Armor

Archived topics from the different rule forums.

Moderator: Admin

Locked
User avatar
Peace420
Town Member
Town Member
Posts: 1116
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:33 am
Location: Smoky Haze
Contact:

Post by Peace420 »

I don't see much wrong with the current system as it's written except for the stacking thing. The thing that shouldn't happen is bumping to heavy of something that should be med because it looks really cool.

I agree with Ried on the bonus part, take away the free 2 life for costume if their costume looks really bad.

I don't like the "metal" heavy rule at all. I could then take strips of the very pliable thin metal that I can shape with my hands and make something that would fit the rules for heavy with coverage and such and weigh less than my light leather stuff.

The people that don't care about weight and encumberance I'd like to know if any of you have ever tried to fight in plate or real chain. Until you do you really have no comparative basis for not caring. Strap a 45 lb weight to your shoulders and walk around with it for an entire day that you have combat practice, then come talk to me about how it doesn't matter. :wink:
Death=Adder

One of these days...I'm going to cut you into little pieces...

~Pink Floyd~
User avatar
Malphus
Town Member
Town Member
Posts: 220
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:15 pm
Contact:

Post by Malphus »

dier_cire wrote:you forgot the bad oriental accent whenever he said it. :D

btw, did you know he's back teaching in Belleville?
Who?
User avatar
dier_cire
Town Member
Town Member
Posts: 2369
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:32 am
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Post by dier_cire »

Craig. I'm assuming you were refering to him since he used to say it all the time.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
User avatar
Malphus
Town Member
Town Member
Posts: 220
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:15 pm
Contact:

Post by Malphus »

I fergot I referenced him in my post. Ahso.
User avatar
GM_Chris
GM
Posts: 7553
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:43 pm
Contact:

Post by GM_Chris »

To be honest I never saw a problem with the current rule set either.

I think there are some FAQ things that need to go into an FAQ just to remove GM subjectivity but that is all

Even armor stacking doesnt need to go into a rulebook. We can have an FAQ about chain that OBVIOUSLY is not heavy and should be medium. At the same time we can to the FAQ that chain that is medium on top of leather that is medium can be considered heavy.

This only needs to go in an FAQ.

All we need are picts of armor and what it should be..kinda what I said at the beginning.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
User avatar
GM_Chris
GM
Posts: 7553
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:43 pm
Contact:

Post by GM_Chris »

Oh yeah that is right I am brining armor back up.

I have been giving this alot of thought on to how we judge what armor type falls into which category.

I think in part we have been influenced by the past. D&D and other games were the first to rate armor followed by LARPS that came before FH.

I think some of it is based on how we perceive its historical effectiveness. (recently I heard that chain with padding protected much better than previously thought)

I think some of it is based on fairness.

Lastly, some of it has to do with how it looks.

How should we consider these categories?

Historical Fantasy:
Well I am unsure how much this should be taken into account. I am going to give it a little weight though because I think there is something to be said for tradition.

Historical Perception (Reality)
We are a fantasy game so reality can go out the window. Therefore using reality as a criteria is not very good.

looks
So this leads fairness and looks which I think are very important. Characters should look good. Duct taped armor looks goofy and detracts from the game.

Fairness
Well this is a big one. Basically, if you are weighted down wearing inflexible armor and getting the same points as a guy in a diaper then yeah that does not seem right.

So what is my take?

Real vs Fake
My oppinion now is something should be considered "Fake" if it detracts from the setting in some way. If you are wearing plastic armor that looks AWSOME then I would say it is FAKE. Why? Well plastic doesn't sound real. It actually takes away from the game IMO.

What about armor that is not physrepped properly? Forexample, what if you have Real hardened leather, but want heavy? I would say sure, but it is fake.

Now I hope this makes sense. I am saying that if you can physrep your armor, but do not reach the category of real then you should probably able to use it, call it fake, and look cool wearing your real armor. Like wise armor that looks heavy, but is in some way takes away from the player experience should also be considered fake.

Armor Category (light, medium, heavy)
I was thinking about how chain is in two categories’. Next, is aluminum chain real or fake? Medium or Heavy? What did we mean when we put chain into Medium. Well I think it wasn't due to the material used, but because some people would make a 5 pound suite with VERY large rings.

So would aluminum be real or fake? Well it looks real and it sounds real so I would say it is real.

Now what category? Well here is where I start to fall short. Basically, a suite of alluminum weighs 15 pounds. My question is how much does paulders and a breastplate weigh? Basically is it fair to those who might be wearing heavier armor? What if you are wearing a very fine and light titanium chain?

Lastly, what about armor stacking. This only matters for the medium category. It only matters for hardened leather over chain. I am not advocating plate over chain or leather over leaver, but this 1 category. Oh and well if chain is heavy, then it doesn't matter.


Thoughts?
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
User avatar
Gabrial
Town Member
Town Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 2:03 am

Post by Gabrial »

Give bounus Combat Reflexes to the real armor guys.

If im wearing a peice of heavy fur that weighs 4 pounds max and call it Medium (fake), and you are wearing some padded hardend leather (real) and call it Medium then you get the bounus CR. Lets say 1 for Light, 2 for Medium, 3 for Heavy. So I would get the 2 armor points for my Medium chest peice, but you would get 2 armor 2 CR.

An in-game referance would be to Doug and Brett. Voralen wears Heavy armor, but it is a Fake plastic. Slisk wears Heavy armor, but it is a Real metal breastplate. Voralen gets the 3 armor for his, but Doug would get 3 armor 3 CR. Due to the fact that real armour is heavier and harder to move in.
Sometimes you need to see the world in a different way...
User avatar
GM_Chris
GM
Posts: 7553
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:43 pm
Contact:

Post by GM_Chris »

I really dont want to talk about bonuses as much as "what consitutes real and fake, medium/heavy"

But since you brought it up I would be a bit against giving out more soak. Not nessissarily a bad idea though
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
User avatar
dier_cire
Town Member
Town Member
Posts: 2369
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:32 am
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Post by dier_cire »

You know my thoughts. I like chain in medium (due to the flexiability). I can go with leather over chain as heavy.

As for real vs. fake, I could go for it. Real is real. Fake is everything else. The bonus isn't really that important. It's maybe a bit much for some to swallow, but the benefit isn't that important.

As for more soak, yeah, I agree with Chris that more is bad. We've been slowly creeping back up to where we were years ago. I think we've crossed the 40 soak line now which I think is almost too much.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
User avatar
GM_Chris
GM
Posts: 7553
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:43 pm
Contact:

Post by GM_Chris »

We creeped back up???

So your saying alluminum is real because it looks real, acts real even though materials are not "real" per say.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
User avatar
Peace420
Town Member
Town Member
Posts: 1116
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:33 am
Location: Smoky Haze
Contact:

Post by Peace420 »

Historical Perception (Reality)
We are a fantasy game so reality can go out the window. Therefore using reality as a criteria is not very good.


In light of the conversation yesterday in the chat room I find this extremely funny, :twisted: realism is a priority for politics and finance but not armor.

Whoah, I just had DeJavu! Did I say that in another thread somewhere?

Yes we have creeped up back into those high #'s for heavy armor and the difference between light and heavy has continually widened.
Death=Adder

One of these days...I'm going to cut you into little pieces...

~Pink Floyd~
User avatar
GM_Chris
GM
Posts: 7553
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:43 pm
Contact:

Post by GM_Chris »

Im missing something so please enlighten the numbers for heavy and light have not changed in years so I dont understand what you mean.

heavy is still 3 per location and light is still 1

Did I say reality is a non factor or just not as big of a factor.

Anyways as I explained the things to care about are those things that can detract from how you feel something should go.

Lets take PvP. If you have a magic item that stops people from killing each other it works. On the other hand if you have no in game reason but jst a dictate from staff then it does not make sense,

Maybe I should use "reality of the world"
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
User avatar
dier_cire
Town Member
Town Member
Posts: 2369
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:32 am
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Post by dier_cire »

As disiplines have been added there have become more options for more soak, and the change in the helmet rules has added more soak. As well, new types of armor have an effect on soak, as do magic items. Not necessarily due to any rule change but things have creeped up over time. I've only moved up 3 points but that is mostly due to levels and the helmet deal but 3 points is fairly large when it's hp.

As for aluminum, it's really not a major issue to me either way, but I'd call it fake. It looks and sounds real but doesn't have the weight that accompanies real chain.
But I could go with real too (both it and titanium). If someone made a nice suit of aluminum plate (thick enough to absorb blows and anodized to be darker) I could see it as real too. Though if either looked cheesy I'd go fake.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
User avatar
GM_Chris
GM
Posts: 7553
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:43 pm
Contact:

Post by GM_Chris »

That is the deal that peope start getting all squimish. "If it loks cheesy"

People hate rules like that.

Oh and if people are reading this and freaking out I should mention that if we ever do chaneg armor a bit, it will not negativly affect anyone who currently has armor.

Forexample, if alluminum is considered heavy lets say, and we change it to medium you will still get heavy (granfathered in) :)

I just want to make the rules more clear by allowing players to dress in a way that looks cool, and is fair.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
User avatar
dier_cire
Town Member
Town Member
Posts: 2369
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:32 am
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Post by dier_cire »

Well, we could define cheesy as "an obvious lack of attempt to make the item looks in period or provide any type of meaningful defense"

Thus 2" metal rings are fake chainmail. Aluminum plate that is the thickness of pop can sheet metal would be fake. etc.

This way it's still subjective but within certain guidelines that can be discussed if the item is borderline (ie "we'll give real for this event but please do x, x, and x before next event".
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
Locked