List of Suggested Rule Changes

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dier_cire
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Post by dier_cire »

Correct on potions and spells.

-19 would be one chip. It could be zero, if that was desired, but as written (see the paratheses in the surgery section) would require one. -19 would actually be easier to word, to be honest.

-9 or -19, I wouldn't care either way. It's just the cap before chips must begin being drawn.
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Post by GM_Chris »

The reason why we went with the "infinite count into negatives" was it was believed to be more intunitive to new people to continue counting hits once they fell.

If we set a hard barrier like neg 10 we create a "rule" that needs to be remembered by everyone and printed into each skill description.

This is not nessissarily bad, but it is still a block just like there is a block for the mystic healing skill. We are just moving the block to a different place.

I am not saying it is a bad idea. I am questioning if it is the right idea.
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Post by dier_cire »

It doesn't need to be in every skill. It'd be in the death and dying section. It will actually replace the "two potions" portion of that section.
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Post by GM_Chris »

True I hate the 2 potion rule. Ok you sold me just to get rid of that stupid rule.
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Post by Andian »

Hearing the completion of this new type of ruling, I'm for it. It actually makes bigger negatives easier to heal, yet could grant death at any time. Makes sense. And it makes the non-path heals not as powerful as they once were. I've always felt that paths should have more power in their own realms than disciplines. Yet, the heal disciplines are still useful. I feel the majority of heals are still within -9. Yet, there are the large damage exceptions.
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Post by WayneO42 »

I like a hybrid of the two systems:

0 to -9:
Can be healed with first aid, potions, mystic heal, transferance, etc. Will bleed to death in one minute (two if Tsunataur). NOTHING stops the bleed to death count except first aid.This makes up to -9 pretty survivable if you have a healer.

-10 or greater: in "Traumatic life".

One minute into "Traumatic life":
Surgeon can bring you to -9 and starting to bleed to death with no chip draw. The person can then be healed etc (See above). The surgeon can also elect to add one minute to the surgery time and have you draw a chip to bring you to zero upon completion of the surgery.

Two minutes into "Traumatic life":
Surgeon can bring you to -9 and starting to bleed to death with a three chip draw. The person can then be healed etc (See above). The surgeon can also elect to add one minute to the surgery time and one additional chip draw (4 total) to bring you to zero upon completion of the surgery.

Three minutes into "Traumatic life":
Surgeon can bring you to -9 and starting to bleed to death with a six chip draw. The person can then be healed etc (See above). The surgeon can also elect to add one minute to the surgery time and one additional chip draw (7 total) to bring you to zero upon completion of the surgery.


four minutes into "Traumatic life":
Surgeon can bring you to -9 and starting to bleed to death with a nine chip draw. The person can then be healed etc (See above).

Dead (>4 minutes)
Dead and beyond the help of a healer alone. Your essence has left your body in a traumatic way. Add one chip to your rez draw (Can be mitigated with spells or potions). If you draw a red chip during the rez then you are unable to be rezzed ever (Dead Dead).

Red Chip draw during Healing:
Dead. You need to be rezzed but do not add a chip to the rez chip draw (Still a minimum of one chip). If you draw a red chip during the rez then you are unable to be rezzed ever (Dead Dead).

Surgery
If surgery is interupted at any point, the patient immediately dies.

Traumatic Life in General
If you take any damage while in traumatic life you immediately die.


Pros:
- Only count damage to -9 (Easier for newbies)
- More chip draws while still making the surgeon valuable
- Increase the effects of potions in negatives but decrease them in "Traumatic" life.
- Negates the benifits of just letting someone die.
- Doesnt require a healers bag but makes you a heck of alot better if you have one.
- Still forces teamwork or preperation to bring someone back from deep into traumatic life.
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Post by Esmerelda »

Okay, I know I've stayed out of this discussion until now, But I really like Wayne's proposal. I'm not big on remembering tons of rules in combat, and his system seems pretty simple to me.
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Post by GM_Chris »

Doesnt require a healers bag but makes you a heck of alot better if you have one.
This is not true since in Erik's system you do not need a healing bag till neg 19. You require ahealing bag at -10 and 2 minutes in negs.


To be honest I don't care which one is used, but it would be which ever one the player base thought was the easiest and most dramatic.

I would argue that the time based system require a chip draw equal the minutes so 3 minutes is 3 chips.

If 3 minutes is 3 chips then the healing skill to bring somone back if they get to them in X time after death should require a 4 chip draw and then perma dead.
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Post by General Maximus »

So surgery does not heal negative life any more in the hybrid system.

But what stops a warrior from just standing there for 1 minute taking damage and than the surgeon bring them to -9 for no chip draw and than use potion, etc.. to heal them up to 0? Aka, you can have use a person as a meat shield, and then just heal them. It is chessy but can be done.

Also, should a healer be able to heal a person from -9 with just healer path skills and themsleves? The way I read the new idea, you would have to have another skill or potions to heal a person from -9 along with the healer path skills
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Post by GM_Chris »

Ok there is 1 issue

If you have neg 9 life or less you bleed to death in 1 minute

If you have neg 10 life you bleed to death is 4 minutes.

There be a problem there.

Aaron when you hit negs you fall to the ground you cannot stand there as a meat shield it is against all of the rules including determination.
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Post by Kalphoenix »

Chris, I think he means a warrior getting healed to 1 or 2 life then going into battle because they know they can be healed when they are in negatives. Personally, I don't see a problem with this; afterall it's what warriors do.

Look at hold ground where they hit zero after doing it.
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Post by dier_cire »

My only major argument against the time based idea is that I would totally use my fallen friends as meat shields then after 30 seconds or so, toss them back to a healer. It'd be better than a shield, since no surging. :)

It should never be ok for allowing warriors (or anyone) at 1 life to run in and get 30 boomed without fear of death.
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Post by General Maximus »

Last event there was many times a down person was being hit by a monster as they where being draged to safety. One person was hit enough to be at -100. It can and does happen.

Also, whats to say a 1 life point warrior stands there blocks a volly of empath booms. In the new rule idea, if a surgeon gets to them with in their bleed to death time, they will be fine. Unlike in the current rules where they could not be brought back easly becasue they could by at -100+. the new idea allows for more heroics with less consequences to the PC if there is a surgeon around.

I see chris point on there is 2 different bleed to death times.

What I can see

0-9 can be healed by normal means. Bleed to death time ranges from 1-3 minutes (don't forget warrios extend life)

10 or greater: in "Traumatic life".

If the surgeon reachs the person in their bleed to death time "Traumatic life":
Surgeon can bring you to -9 and starting to bleed to death with no chip draw. The person can then be healed etc (See above). The surgeon can also elect to add one minute to the surgery time and have you draw a chip to bring you to zero upon completion of the surgery.

If the surgeon reachs the person 1 minute past their bleed to death time "Traumatic life":
Surgeon can bring you to -9 and starting to bleed to death with a three chip draw. The person can then be healed etc (See above). The surgeon can also elect to add one minute to the surgery time and one additional chip draw (4 total) to bring you to zero upon completion of the surgery.

If the surgeon reachs the person 2 minute past their bleed to death time "Traumatic life":
Surgeon can bring you to -9 and starting to bleed to death with a six chip draw. The person can then be healed etc (See above). The surgeon can also elect to add one minute to the surgery time and one additional chip draw (7 total) to bring you to zero upon completion of the surgery.


If the surgeon reachs the person 3 minute past their bleed to death time "Traumatic life":
Surgeon can bring you to -9 and starting to bleed to death with a nine chip draw. The person can then be healed etc (See above).

Dead 3+ minute past their bleed to death time
Dead and beyond the help of a healer alone. Your essence has left your body in a traumatic way. Add one chip to your rez draw (Can be mitigated with spells or potions). If you draw a red chip during the rez then you are unable to be rezzed ever (Dead Dead).
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Post by dier_cire »

At least non-combat builds would have a purpose in combat this way. Drop them and use them as shields and rotate them every minute... :)
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Post by WayneO42 »

If you have neg 9 life or less you bleed to death in 1 minute

If you have neg 10 life you bleed to death is 4 minutes.


No, I just worded it poorly. You bleed into Traumatic life after one minute at 0 to -9. Then, the traumatic life count begins. So, it actually gives you an extra minute if you never get below -9.
My only major argument against the time based idea is that I would totally use my fallen friends as meat shields then after 30 seconds or so, toss them back to a healer. It'd be better than a shield, since no surging.

Also, whats to say a 1 life point warrior stands there blocks a volly of empath booms. In the new rule idea, if a surgeon gets to them with in their bleed to death time, they will be fine. Unlike in the current rules where they could not be brought back easly becasue they could by at -100+. the new idea allows for more heroics with less consequences to the PC if there is a surgeon around.


Please Note:

If you take any damage while in traumatic life you immediately die.
They could soak hits until they hit -10 then the next hit would kill them. Or, they can take the first boom and be in traumatic life, the next one kills them. I am ok with this.
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