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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:06 pm
by GM-Mike
3,7,12 correct. Thank you both for the translation

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:36 pm
by GM_Chris
So people are arguing over 1 point of damage? To make sure I understand 4 damage at basic breaks the game but 3 creates Disney princess type harmony?

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:24 pm
by Wyrmwrath
actualy 3.14159 is the Disney peace number we just rounded down...

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:34 pm
by Wyrmwrath
Ark
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Jared had an idea where the basic critical strike should be 3, advanced +4, and master +5 so I thought I would throw that out as well. That way those just dabbling have the 3 while the rogues are not penalized from where it is now.
I like it

and i think the amount of times i have heard an NPC use "parry" can be counted on 1 hand
I agree with the others, you need to attend more I have heard it enough time to run out of fingers.
:lol:


Ovak Stonecrusher
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We had a battle that was 8 on 8. The NPCs were mice (as in one mouse each and not tough). The players nearly died. Fortunately, there were a couple warriors with them...
I would like to say, that if you mean the fight where War form the Valkin councail aided the players.... mice....with longbow missel systems are NOT mere mice. For the record I now hate archers...with sideburns especially...

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:18 am
by Ark
so i was on the phone with cristen and we were discusing warrior and rogue and wizard etc. in our bickering and brainstorming we came to some conclusions, the one for rogue i will post here.

for warriors to do decent damage they must invest a discipline. the following thought came over to rogue as well. for this arguement i will say that the damage is decreased to 3, 6, 9.

ninja
1) escape artist
2) mind games
3) critical strike (5 count for 3, time and damage can be added to any critical strike skills the character has)
4) puncture (increase the damage of critical strike from 3, to 4. this effects all critical strikes the character has

now a rogue ninja has a 5 count for 4, a 10 count for 8, a 15 count for 12, AND a 20 count for 16.

and i am completly fine with that, as they have to devote a path and discipline to it.

BTW working on one for empath as well :)

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:26 am
by Wyrmwrath
just so i have it straight........




for almost a year now you have been wailing that the rogues do to MUCH damage and your suggesting MORE?




Christin...stop hitting him in the head please....
:mad:


I dont see how your math is adding up however:

base.....time.....puncture.....+5charge
3----------5----------4------------8

6----------10---------6------------9

9----------15---------9-----------12

what were you trying to imply that isnt translating for me?

your lowering a level 2 discipline skill to level 1, and why not just take assassin?

I rebut your suggestion as follows since I think it fits your skill set concept more accurately:

ninja
1) spot/throw dagger (Dervish)
2) escape artist
3) Puncture (moves crit damage back to 4/8/12 & gives +1 dmg to throw dagger for 5 count)
4) Resist Mind Effects (chieftan)

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:55 pm
by Ark
more about if they want to do that damage they should pay for it like the rest of us.
escape artist is a first level skill in some places, but i like the set up of your discipline better in a few places. however i prefer the crit strike, then puncture, i discipline should be able to stand alone so having a skill the improves crit strike with no crit strike is silly, but if its a given that it pretty much only workd with rogue then meh.

1)throw dagger
2)escape artist
3)critical strike
4)puncture

base time/damage

5/3
10/6
15/9

with ninja

5/4
10/8
15/12
20/16

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:08 pm
by Ark
actually after a little more thought i could be fine with the master level skill being something else and the 3rd skill being another crit strike. that way a rogue can still do 12, but has a count to match the lethality of the call

5/3
10/6
15/9
20/12

whoot :D

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:32 pm
by Wyrmwrath
I agree with your point on disciplines standing alone, even if its set up almost screams what path WOULD take it; the only current one that comes close to not standing alone is man at arms with the shield skill since it doesnt supply use shield (yes...i know you dont need it to use a shield, ubless you want to do damage as well).

Since you named it Ninjas, and thier mind was a more dangerous weapon than thier tools, how about this Ark:

NINJA/Commando
1) spot/throw dagger (Dervish)
2) escape artist
3) Puncture (2 dmg crit for +3 seconds AND +1 dmg to throw dagger for 3 count)
4) Resist Mind Effects (chieftan)

when used with rogue:
base....time....puncture
3--------5------5/8 sec
6--------10-----8/13sec
9--------15-----11/18sec
i could be fine with the master level skill being something else and the 3rd skill being another crit strike. that way a rogue can still do 12, but has a count to match the lethality of the call

5/3
10/6
15/9
20/12
I think that could be ok too, but it should still add 1 to thrown to make them as deadly with flying sharp things as thier mythology implies...

more about if they want to do that damage they should pay for it like the rest of us.
So they should pay to do what they are already supposed to be able to do?!?!
Thats like saying lets remove pick lock form a rogue and make then buy a discipline to get it back...

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:05 pm
by Ark
ahhh dont be difficult you know what i mean, ala weapon focus. paths themselves should be only so powerfull. then disciplines augment your path.

as far as the discipline. and this is me trying to avoid the creation of new skills for a moment

1) throw dagger (as dervish, if you already posses this skill you increase the damage by 1)
2) escape artist (as many things)
3) critical strike (as 3rd level avayana)
4) resist mind effects (as chieftan)

great stand alone discipline, that has great synergy with a few things :D

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:25 pm
by Wyrmwrath
I wanna wedgie the gripers about new skills, its how some of the cool ones we have now got added!


anyhow....
1) throw dagger (as dervish, if you already posses this skill you increase the damage by 1)
Dervish only skill as far as I can tell so no way to get it twice.

but yes its an interesting discipline.... no ninja costume for you though!

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:46 pm
by NPC Christen
*chuckle* Josh and I bicker about mechanics all the time. He's played a LOT of games, as well as ran his own successful FH game for 4 years. He usually knows what he's talking about and talks me off the roof when I'm not understanding the larger picture. Not to mention, he is SO much better with math than I am.

Really, his point that warriors, to truly be masters of the combat damage art... HAVE to pair that with a discipline is a real one. And honestly, that's fine. There SHOULD be one discipline that beautifully synergies with each path.

Healer / Paladin
Wizard / Arcane
Warrior / Knight


I even loved the idea Josh threw out there last night of a Jack discipline to compliment the path:

Level 1: level 1 discipline skill
Level 2: level 1 discipline skill
Level 3: level 2 discipline skill
Level 4: level 3 discipline skill

What that accomplishes is that if your path is really the driving force behind your character concept, there is at least one discipline that really beautifully works with that path to make you the penultimate in that particular path.

Then again... I also believe that Bureaucrat should be a path... imagine the possibility...

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:21 pm
by Wyrmwrath
I would think there should be a "perfect discipline" from each lifestyle that doesnt require the expansion.
for example (dont know there are the best fits)
PATH....Privileged-----Common--------Savage
Empath/witch hunter--arcanist-----------tribal protector
Healer/none-----------undead hunter----druid
Rogue/assassin--------scout--------------dervish
Sage/spy---------------druid--------------tribal protector
Warrior/knight---------man at arms------none(used to be Barbarian)
Wizard/witch hunter---witch hunter------arcanist

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:45 pm
by Ark
brian if "ninja" became a discipline then there would be a way to get it twice right? full rogue, full ninja, level 1 dervish, etc.

the empath one was to the effect of

-enchant weapon
-magic fear (lower level then fear as it has "magic" added to it. if you already have magic fear you can use it twice per life point spent
-channel (10 for 5)
-something (cant be resist magic as no matter the lifestyle you could have it twice) perhaps concentrate magic? the 2 magic lash, if you already have it you can use it twice per life point?

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:51 pm
by Wyrmwrath
brian if "ninja" became a discipline then there would be a way to get it twice right? full rogue, full ninja, level 1 dervish, etc.
true but a savage ninja seems silly to me, hence the responce. Figured "ninja" would be common or priviledged

the empath one was to the effect of

-enchant weapon
-magic fear (lower level then fear as it has "magic" added to it. if you already have magic fear you can use it twice per life point spent
-channel (10 for 5)
-something (cant be resist magic as no matter the lifestyle you could have it twice) perhaps concentrate magic? the 2 magic lash, if you already have it you can use it twice per life point?

I counter with:

Warlock
1-basic wizard spell
2-torture mind (as consume brain but target must be living...when the warlock starts. treated as a killing blow) 30 second charge
3-disenchant
4-magic supress (30 charge, terget hit with packet cannot use any skill with MAGIC in the call, magic item, or any channel skill for 2 minutes, until disenchanted, or warlock dead.)

already have it you can use it twice per life point?[/quote]