List of Suggested Rule Changes
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I keep hearing about how deadly our game is.
I hear things like WOW 100's will die an event if we do this or that. Heck many people won't play our game for death is just to likely to occur.
The truth is people die less in our game than in many LARPS, but definitly more than others.
Erik, the press rule is so you do not get intot he CARPS pary\resist\pary\resist\pary\resist hey wait are we playing tabletop or larp
I hear things like WOW 100's will die an event if we do this or that. Heck many people won't play our game for death is just to likely to occur.
The truth is people die less in our game than in many LARPS, but definitly more than others.
Erik, the press rule is so you do not get intot he CARPS pary\resist\pary\resist\pary\resist hey wait are we playing tabletop or larp
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
- Atrum Draconus
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I know Chris, but at some point you have to choose bewteen 2 people standing there having their own little conversation in their own little world or making the rules complicated enough that you have to keep track of every person on the battlefield, and how do you do that with NPC's. "Hey are you the same giant slug I pressed already or is that one dead." Way too much complication. I vote for on free press per time you have the skill and leave it the way it is.
Last edited by Atrum Draconus on Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Atrum Draconus
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
Well we have not had a problem in 6 years with an argument over the press skill so I really do not think it is an issue.
Press a person and then in a bit press them again. It could be twice in the same battle but something changed int he battle so it felt right to press again. Yes it is not an exact rule, but honestly it ha not ben an issue.
Now if it really is that big of an issue since I cannot have a hard fast rule like 1 press every 28 and a half seconds then I will vote to remove pres as a skill.
Press a person and then in a bit press them again. It could be twice in the same battle but something changed int he battle so it felt right to press again. Yes it is not an exact rule, but honestly it ha not ben an issue.
Now if it really is that big of an issue since I cannot have a hard fast rule like 1 press every 28 and a half seconds then I will vote to remove pres as a skill.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
- Atrum Draconus
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yeah thats why I think it should stay the same or be made to or have infinite uses. I don't see the press\resist word battle lasting longer than a couple tries before someone says screw that it ain't worth it go on by me.
Atrum Draconus
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
House Draconus
Hand of King Chimeron Draconus
ANNOSUS DRACONUS!
It has always been once per person so if we leave it the same then there is no word battle.
If we allow people (this would be a change from current rules) to have a word battle, the first time I saw it I would fight the GM's over removing the skill with much vigor.
If we allow people (this would be a change from current rules) to have a word battle, the first time I saw it I would fight the GM's over removing the skill with much vigor.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
Again, how many people have used press? This is akin to people bitching about wearing armor who don't wear it. I use it every event. It is a royal pain in the ass to keep track of the crap about one per person. I've even been talked to after a battle about misusing the skill. Yes, because I'm supposed to keep track of your damn npc...
I'm actually confused how trying to push past someone multiple times would actually be a problem.
Chris, as for the fix for healing, it isn't a fix. It's a band aid that will fail. The whole point is to fix the system, not patch skills to make a poor system work.
I'm actually confused how trying to push past someone multiple times would actually be a problem.
Chris, as for the fix for healing, it isn't a fix. It's a band aid that will fail. The whole point is to fix the system, not patch skills to make a poor system work.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
- Kalphoenix
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Unless I'm REALLY out of the loop, the only healing related skill being talked about here is Mystic Heal, which isn't hidden, since Druids have it as well and they both function identically. I'm not sure how they are additions though, since they existed throughout this entire year. No one made a fuss when Taki played Donovan and uber-healed people with his sword (Something like 4 magic upkeep) and the Paladin discipline.Atrum Draconus wrote:I'm not so sure adding another chip every 10 is the way to go either, but then again I don't know anything about the hidden skill.
I'm not really happy with the changes to mystic heal, but it's a compromise and I'm also not currently playing a healer. For some reason people keep trying to make folks who heal have less and less fun unless they have magic items. I'd be interested in seeing how many people really want the game to be deadlier.
Well there is the example,
Ok if people are complaining about press then press really really needs to go. I appreciate you brining this to our attention.
As for healing,
The dealiness of the game is a product of the GM's not the skills. If we made everyone have a max of 5 soak and could only swing 1 you would think that is bad unless every NPC only had 1 LP and also only swung 1.
PLEASE I really do not want to discuss deadliness. NPC strength is a product of the power both offensive and defensive of the PC base. If the power level of the PC's goes down then that will be answered by a reduction in power of the NPC's.
So people do not fear death? Should I as an NPC just chop off more heads in battle? That fixes things without a need to fix a broken system.
If we made neg 10 the cut off point FINE! Then the NPC's will simply make sure they stop hacking at people once they hit neg 3.
Here are my thoughts on what the system should look like:
Combat should always cary with it the fear of death. it should be a drama. It is the reason I like the chip draw because it brings about that moment of "do I live or die"
The system should be easy though which means a chip draw should by any streatch be a requiered piece of equipment. That was something Todd was pretty passionate about and frankly I agree with him. Therefore we have the "option" to heal more with the bag.
The healer path should be better at healing than EVERYTHING else in the game. This means that mystic healing should not in anyway outdo the healer.
Anyways there are no answers in my post just some observations.
Ok if people are complaining about press then press really really needs to go. I appreciate you brining this to our attention.
As for healing,
The dealiness of the game is a product of the GM's not the skills. If we made everyone have a max of 5 soak and could only swing 1 you would think that is bad unless every NPC only had 1 LP and also only swung 1.
PLEASE I really do not want to discuss deadliness. NPC strength is a product of the power both offensive and defensive of the PC base. If the power level of the PC's goes down then that will be answered by a reduction in power of the NPC's.
So people do not fear death? Should I as an NPC just chop off more heads in battle? That fixes things without a need to fix a broken system.
If we made neg 10 the cut off point FINE! Then the NPC's will simply make sure they stop hacking at people once they hit neg 3.
Here are my thoughts on what the system should look like:
Combat should always cary with it the fear of death. it should be a drama. It is the reason I like the chip draw because it brings about that moment of "do I live or die"
The system should be easy though which means a chip draw should by any streatch be a requiered piece of equipment. That was something Todd was pretty passionate about and frankly I agree with him. Therefore we have the "option" to heal more with the bag.
The healer path should be better at healing than EVERYTHING else in the game. This means that mystic healing should not in anyway outdo the healer.
Anyways there are no answers in my post just some observations.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
- Kalphoenix
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Oh, I agree, which is why there is (Or was?) a benefit to having access to Mystic Heal and being a healer.GM_Chris wrote: The healer path should be better at healing than EVERYTHING else in the game. This means that mystic healing should not in anyway outdo the healer.
Let me rephrase my thoughts then: I personally avoid combat and appreciate when it is an option to be avoided. I think people are not reacting enough in an in-character way to combat. Making people die more often will not fix this, it will make them more detached and put even less work into their characters. However, I DO agree that in-character actions yield in-character consequences. You want to head down to the life-sucking graveyard without planning? You want to wander ahead of the group in a creepy cave? You probably won't come out of it well.
I am personally fine with the way death is now if a time-option isn't really viable. I see the problems with it now that folks have said things. Past a certain point, a surgeon is already a requirement, without having to make extra rules for it.
Mystic Heal was "fixed." I'm not 100% ok with the fix and I think it's kind of lame, but I haven't come up with other suggestions and I agree that potions and Mystic Heal are a broken combo. People can't do that anymore, so I'm not sure what else is "broken" with the death system.
Now, that being said, we probably have some adrenaline junkies here. Realistically this shouldn't be the outlet for that; when people get really charged up on adrenaline, they hit harder and pay less attention to those around them. I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy yourself, but if it's being said that it's not fun unless other people are getting killed, this isn't the right game for me.
Maybe the problem here is with warrior soak...maybe that needs to come down again, because as far as I'm concerned, combat is scary if you aren't a warrior or don't have uber-armor.
- General Maximus
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Can you explain the voted fix for mystic heal. I don't understand the fix
Is it you can only use Mystic heal once on a person that is in negatives? Aka, you can heal them, drink a potion, and than heal them again which is where the break occurs and which has been brought up 100 times before this. And yes, Eric and I have been complaining about taki's mystic heal ability for 2 years now. It was broken. And what happens when the next negative heal combo happens, what new rule will have to be added to fix that?
As for Press. It is a useful skill and resolves a combat stalemate. So it is needed. Wayne used it on me multiple time last event becasue I was blocking a passage with defense matrix and he could not get through. So he pressed me to break the stalemate.
But there is an issue of trying to keep track of how many times you have pressed X NPC.
Tell me this, what is the difference between able to use press infinte times and starting a counter battle vrs having a person doing a disarm to a warrior and they are parrying. They both would be word battle's and both would be doing 1 damage to each party. Most people would stop after 1 or 2 press's and continue on. Has anybody seen a disarm and parry word battle int he past 6 years? I have not. Press would be the same.
As for negatives, I realy get annoyed seeing people running into battle with 1-2 life and not worrying about dieing becasue they know the healers will be able to fix them. It is poor RPing and even worse stragety.
As for bring the soak down on the warrior, I think not. Why should the warrior class suffer because people don't build there characters to with stand combat. I made an empath that had 15-18 soak. It is not that hard. If you make a charcter that can't be in battle, than don't go into battle. That is your choice. What makes the warrior so asome is there skills, not there soak, but the soak helps. Every path can wear armor, it is your choice not to.
Is it you can only use Mystic heal once on a person that is in negatives? Aka, you can heal them, drink a potion, and than heal them again which is where the break occurs and which has been brought up 100 times before this. And yes, Eric and I have been complaining about taki's mystic heal ability for 2 years now. It was broken. And what happens when the next negative heal combo happens, what new rule will have to be added to fix that?
As for Press. It is a useful skill and resolves a combat stalemate. So it is needed. Wayne used it on me multiple time last event becasue I was blocking a passage with defense matrix and he could not get through. So he pressed me to break the stalemate.
But there is an issue of trying to keep track of how many times you have pressed X NPC.
Tell me this, what is the difference between able to use press infinte times and starting a counter battle vrs having a person doing a disarm to a warrior and they are parrying. They both would be word battle's and both would be doing 1 damage to each party. Most people would stop after 1 or 2 press's and continue on. Has anybody seen a disarm and parry word battle int he past 6 years? I have not. Press would be the same.
As for negatives, I realy get annoyed seeing people running into battle with 1-2 life and not worrying about dieing becasue they know the healers will be able to fix them. It is poor RPing and even worse stragety.
As for bring the soak down on the warrior, I think not. Why should the warrior class suffer because people don't build there characters to with stand combat. I made an empath that had 15-18 soak. It is not that hard. If you make a charcter that can't be in battle, than don't go into battle. That is your choice. What makes the warrior so asome is there skills, not there soak, but the soak helps. Every path can wear armor, it is your choice not to.
Mystic HealGeneral Maximus wrote:Can you explain the voted fix for mystic heal. I don't understand the fix
The Druid may spend a life point to heal a target by 1 life point. This skill requires an uninterupted 15 count to use. This skill may NOT bring the target above their base life point total. If the target is in critical life (Below zero), they can only be the target of this skill ONCE until they are brought out of Critical Life. Multiple life points may be spent when the skill is activated but the required count increases by 15 for each additional life point spent. If the Druid has the Transferance or Surgery skill, the time to activate the Mystic Heal skill is reduced to zero.
Additionally, the Druid may bring a target from critical life (below zero but not dead) to zero life points regardless of the actually negative life point total of the target. This takes one uninterupted minute to complete. Once complete, the Druid dies and, for the purpose of healing the Druid, it is as if the Druid has been dead for fifteen minutes.
So, a druid can spend multiple life points when they activate the skill. A person can only be the target of this skill ONCE while they are in negatives. So, a druid could burn themselves to zero to heal a person, take a potion, and then be back at full. They cannot then heal the same person again unless that person is out of negatives
Wayne O
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
- General Maximus
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That is not a bad fix.
So a druid healer could bring a person out of negative 28-30 with out drawing a chip.
The change does help, but still, makes negatives less scary if a healer with mystic healing is around.
On average, he can bring a person back from -29 with 2 level 1 cure potion. And that's with out using transefernce fromthe healer or empath, an additional chip draw, using magic items, or commidity items. That is why I'm saying negatives aren't that scary. It is easy to make charaters that can bring you back from deep negtives. Now if the that special healer is not there, you are in trouble! And that's where is can get scary. A standard healer can do -17-19 life with no problem, with mystic healer, upto -30.
20th level savage dwarven druid healer can use mystic heal to heal upto -10 life. With 2 cure 4 potions, he could bring a person out of -35 with needing to draw a chip.
3 life style
2 race
2 costume
1 helmet
1 level
1 skill
Note: the other rule addition that makes negatives less scary is the sage buff of +1 to heal potions.
So a druid healer could bring a person out of negative 28-30 with out drawing a chip.
The change does help, but still, makes negatives less scary if a healer with mystic healing is around.
On average, he can bring a person back from -29 with 2 level 1 cure potion. And that's with out using transefernce fromthe healer or empath, an additional chip draw, using magic items, or commidity items. That is why I'm saying negatives aren't that scary. It is easy to make charaters that can bring you back from deep negtives. Now if the that special healer is not there, you are in trouble! And that's where is can get scary. A standard healer can do -17-19 life with no problem, with mystic healer, upto -30.
20th level savage dwarven druid healer can use mystic heal to heal upto -10 life. With 2 cure 4 potions, he could bring a person out of -35 with needing to draw a chip.
3 life style
2 race
2 costume
1 helmet
1 level
1 skill
Note: the other rule addition that makes negatives less scary is the sage buff of +1 to heal potions.