No problem Korrigan. I just wish all that had been public knowledge, so I could have been working with you, rather than along a similar path. More hands make lighter work, so to speak.
As for being handed the Regency, yeah, I agree. I'm pretty sure it was just that she made you the official "hold the fort while you're there" man during the trip to the Iron City, as she was unable to make it due to other business.
Sleepwalker
Moderator: Admin
*Korrigan nods to Marcus.*
"Well, now that we know, we'll compare notes and see where we sit. With any luck we're further ahead together than we thought we were apart."
"Zeira, that's the only official leadership structure, yeah; but Dallid's been our last surviving magistrate for quite some time. Even though we need a couple more to get a proper magistrate council back together, he's still been pretty damn helpful all on his own."
"Well, now that we know, we'll compare notes and see where we sit. With any luck we're further ahead together than we thought we were apart."
"Zeira, that's the only official leadership structure, yeah; but Dallid's been our last surviving magistrate for quite some time. Even though we need a couple more to get a proper magistrate council back together, he's still been pretty damn helpful all on his own."
GM-Taki - Final Haven GM, Winter Haven GM, Editor of the Rulebook Project.
*Listening from the background, Serith Pipes up.
"As a representitive of Wood Haven, I would like to offer up my name as a Magistrate, because lets be honest, what happens here is going to spread to Wood Haven eventually, and Id like to stop it before it does."
"I also agree that we need something more permanent for a leader, I think it is time to agree that Esmerelda is not coming back."
"As a representitive of Wood Haven, I would like to offer up my name as a Magistrate, because lets be honest, what happens here is going to spread to Wood Haven eventually, and Id like to stop it before it does."
"I also agree that we need something more permanent for a leader, I think it is time to agree that Esmerelda is not coming back."
Serith Darkheart
"I dont make Threats....Only Promises"
"I dont make Threats....Only Promises"
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Fionna
- Town Member
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:23 am
- Location: In her lab or out in the woods gathering supplies.
Coming in from the villages as usual, Fionna over hears much of the most recent conversation on her way in.
"Excuse me gentlemen. Why is it that whenever my competence is brought into question, I am not involved in the conversation?" She looks to the questioningly.
"First, let me squelch this idea that I 'transferred' the Regency to Korrigan. Korrigan is the STEWARD. He is the kingdom's accountant. THAT IS ALL! I asked him to take the lead on the trip the the Iron Cities because I could not, in good conscience, leave villagers to their own devices without proper leadership or protection. I needed someone to take point on mission.
Dallid, I do not need to consult anyone on who I assign to take point on a mission. That is the job of the leader. If it is going to fall on my head if something goes south, I damn well better be able to determine who is going to lead in my stead."
She looks to Ziera determined.
"And you. First, I never said I needed to check with Korrigan about your guild. There is a proper time and place to discuss business of the kingdom. Interrupting a ladies sleep at unworldly hours of the morning is not the time to discuss the development of a guild. Neither is when I am cooking for the many people that stay here or when I am indecently dressed in the process of getting ready for the day.
I told you I would discuss the guild with you, but I wanted time to look over the paperwork. I wanted to take the time to thoroughly read through your charter and make sure none of it violated the laws or values of the kingdom. I will not place my mark on anything I have not fully read or fully understand the implications of.
You, of all people, would be the first to accuse me of not being thorough enough if I allowed an evil guild to exist. You had plenty of time to discuss the guild with me since then, but I have not heard anything. I am more than happy to discuss the guild with you at the proper time. When we can both sit down as lucid adults."
She looks to all the gentlemen in the room, "I have not shifted duties to anyone. I am busy helping the villages, working to rebuild, and working with our military advisers to create a well trained, strong force. I need to be able to rely on the talents of others as I am only one person. This is why Korrigan is steward. I ask people to do what they do best and we succeed as one kingdom."
She looks to Serith, "I've been meaning to ask you anyway. Thank you for reading my mind, friend. I would appreciate an opinion from Woodhaven on matters of justice. That is the job of the magistrates. They are the judges when it comes to matters of crime. I am looking for one more magistrate as to reduce the likelyhood of a split vote between magistrates."
She looks to all in the room, "As much as I don't want to admit it personally, I fear Esmerelda may not return. This kingdom, and its people need a strong, permanent leader in order to grow and thrive.
I would like to continue to as leader, if there are reservations about making this position permanent, please air them so we can get them out in the open. This grumbling behind my back needs to end now!"
She looks to all around her and waits for their response.
"Excuse me gentlemen. Why is it that whenever my competence is brought into question, I am not involved in the conversation?" She looks to the questioningly.
"First, let me squelch this idea that I 'transferred' the Regency to Korrigan. Korrigan is the STEWARD. He is the kingdom's accountant. THAT IS ALL! I asked him to take the lead on the trip the the Iron Cities because I could not, in good conscience, leave villagers to their own devices without proper leadership or protection. I needed someone to take point on mission.
Dallid, I do not need to consult anyone on who I assign to take point on a mission. That is the job of the leader. If it is going to fall on my head if something goes south, I damn well better be able to determine who is going to lead in my stead."
She looks to Ziera determined.
"And you. First, I never said I needed to check with Korrigan about your guild. There is a proper time and place to discuss business of the kingdom. Interrupting a ladies sleep at unworldly hours of the morning is not the time to discuss the development of a guild. Neither is when I am cooking for the many people that stay here or when I am indecently dressed in the process of getting ready for the day.
I told you I would discuss the guild with you, but I wanted time to look over the paperwork. I wanted to take the time to thoroughly read through your charter and make sure none of it violated the laws or values of the kingdom. I will not place my mark on anything I have not fully read or fully understand the implications of.
You, of all people, would be the first to accuse me of not being thorough enough if I allowed an evil guild to exist. You had plenty of time to discuss the guild with me since then, but I have not heard anything. I am more than happy to discuss the guild with you at the proper time. When we can both sit down as lucid adults."
She looks to all the gentlemen in the room, "I have not shifted duties to anyone. I am busy helping the villages, working to rebuild, and working with our military advisers to create a well trained, strong force. I need to be able to rely on the talents of others as I am only one person. This is why Korrigan is steward. I ask people to do what they do best and we succeed as one kingdom."
She looks to Serith, "I've been meaning to ask you anyway. Thank you for reading my mind, friend. I would appreciate an opinion from Woodhaven on matters of justice. That is the job of the magistrates. They are the judges when it comes to matters of crime. I am looking for one more magistrate as to reduce the likelyhood of a split vote between magistrates."
She looks to all in the room, "As much as I don't want to admit it personally, I fear Esmerelda may not return. This kingdom, and its people need a strong, permanent leader in order to grow and thrive.
I would like to continue to as leader, if there are reservations about making this position permanent, please air them so we can get them out in the open. This grumbling behind my back needs to end now!"
She looks to all around her and waits for their response.
Fionna MacNeil
Queen of the People of Haven
“We all at certain times in our lives find ourselves broken. True strength is found in picking up the pieces.”
Queen of the People of Haven
“We all at certain times in our lives find ourselves broken. True strength is found in picking up the pieces.”
Zeira takes a look around the room for a moment before speaking
"You put me in a difficult position Fionna. The story you tell is not accurate. I couldn't barge into your room if you wanted because it is locked. I always knock, ask for permission and then we talk. I always try and be as courteous as possible because I know your time is stretched."
"Yes I did ask you multiple times because you never gave me a time frame in which you would get back to me. I don't feel like asking about something once or twice a day is out of line."
"You put me in a difficult position Fionna. The story you tell is not accurate. I couldn't barge into your room if you wanted because it is locked. I always knock, ask for permission and then we talk. I always try and be as courteous as possible because I know your time is stretched."
"Yes I did ask you multiple times because you never gave me a time frame in which you would get back to me. I don't feel like asking about something once or twice a day is out of line."
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Fionna
- Town Member
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:23 am
- Location: In her lab or out in the woods gathering supplies.
Yes Ziera you knocked. I let you in. I also told you we should talk later because I wanted time. Every time you approached me about the guild it was either nearing four in the morning after a very long day or while I was busy. You did come at a time that was not an unwordly hour, but when my response was I'm dressing I'll be out in a moment, you asked if you could come in anyway. I always answer my door at night in case of an emergency. That does not mean that is the time to talk business.
I have not put off the issue. I told you I would look over the paperwork and let you know. I have done that. When would you like to discuss your guild?
I have not put off the issue. I told you I would look over the paperwork and let you know. I have done that. When would you like to discuss your guild?
Fionna MacNeil
Queen of the People of Haven
“We all at certain times in our lives find ourselves broken. True strength is found in picking up the pieces.”
Queen of the People of Haven
“We all at certain times in our lives find ourselves broken. True strength is found in picking up the pieces.”
“Pardon me, I will explain my perspective more clearly. I heard you refer to yourself as ‘Temporary Regent’ at the Iron Cities, Korrigan, and I became concerned. No one, as far as I was knew, was aware of this appointment. While I interpreted the situation as you described, Fiona, some might easily instead see secret room conspiracies and efforts to remove the influence of citizens over control of their town. A decision having a direct effect on Haven was made without the knowledge of its citizens. Such acts tend to sew paranoia. I only bring up the issue now in an effort to nip any potential future problems in the bud – before they actually become problems. I’d advise in the future such acts are at least proceeded by a public announcement.”
“And while an act such as this certainly wouldn’t require a lengthy council discussion, consulting a council still serves an important purpose. It disseminates the information, so if citizens with questions can’t have direct access to you, they will hopefully still have easy access to a council member. Anyone wondering ‘what’s this all about?’ can then be more quickly addressed, rather than left feeling deliberately kept in the dark.”
“Haven’s leadership *must* have the approval of the citizens if we are to avoid counter-productive factionalization. They must feel their concerns are considered and they are represented in Haven’s decisions. In short, the leadership must have the trust of the population.”
“A coronation is order. But prior to this all villages under Haven’s authority must be approached and their people told it is time we have a new, permanent Queen. They must be asked if they have any concerns regarding this, and these concerns must be adequately addressed before the coronation may be scheduled. We must be clear the intention is for Fiona to serve Haven in this role for the remainder of her life.”
“And while an act such as this certainly wouldn’t require a lengthy council discussion, consulting a council still serves an important purpose. It disseminates the information, so if citizens with questions can’t have direct access to you, they will hopefully still have easy access to a council member. Anyone wondering ‘what’s this all about?’ can then be more quickly addressed, rather than left feeling deliberately kept in the dark.”
“Haven’s leadership *must* have the approval of the citizens if we are to avoid counter-productive factionalization. They must feel their concerns are considered and they are represented in Haven’s decisions. In short, the leadership must have the trust of the population.”
“A coronation is order. But prior to this all villages under Haven’s authority must be approached and their people told it is time we have a new, permanent Queen. They must be asked if they have any concerns regarding this, and these concerns must be adequately addressed before the coronation may be scheduled. We must be clear the intention is for Fiona to serve Haven in this role for the remainder of her life.”
Learn the past. Observe the present. Guide the future.
When Korrigan offered her the job of smithing the bells, her face beamed. "It would be an honor to assist in this project!"
When the topic turned to politics, she politely excused herself from the discussion. She simply hated politics. She busied herself with her smithing until Fiona appeared. Bowing in respect to the Regent, she listened carefully to her words. The idea of the Queen never returning was quite disturbing. She agreed that Haven needed a strong figure to lead. She pondered this and continued to work, pondering the implications of Fiona taking her place as the new monarch of Haven.
When the topic turned to politics, she politely excused herself from the discussion. She simply hated politics. She busied herself with her smithing until Fiona appeared. Bowing in respect to the Regent, she listened carefully to her words. The idea of the Queen never returning was quite disturbing. She agreed that Haven needed a strong figure to lead. She pondered this and continued to work, pondering the implications of Fiona taking her place as the new monarch of Haven.
"Pity the selfish, for they do not know charity...pity the cruel, for they do not know kindness...and pity the heartless, for they do not know love." ~ Alice
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BarrytheBartender
- New in Town
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:42 am
*after listening to much of the conversations going on around*
"Excuse me Dallid, I think I have asked before but who is on this Council you speak of and what exaclty is their function? I know there is Fiona as Temporary Regent, Korrigan as Steward, and I have heard you called a Magistrate. I know of no one on a Council or what they may do.. and if I do not know of one, does the average citizen of Haven?"
*Looks around*
"The way I see it from my experience, if the the people didn't want Fiona to be in charge, we already would have heard of it...a Queen does not ask her people permission to do something, she does what she needs to do hopefully for the betterment of her people.. and if she doesn't.. that is how revolutions start.. so I would say Fiona so far has a pretty good shot at staying in her position. Dallid if you wish to make the rounds of the villages spreading the word that Fiona is t be our new Queen , if that is her wish, then so be it... the people should know.. heck this would be a perfect test of the Messenger service Korrigan has been working on."
*Takes a breath*
"Sory for being so long-winded, I get a little excitable when politics start coming up.. I do say though in my opinion the sooner the better.. the sooner we show a united front to any enemies the better for Haven."
"Excuse me Dallid, I think I have asked before but who is on this Council you speak of and what exaclty is their function? I know there is Fiona as Temporary Regent, Korrigan as Steward, and I have heard you called a Magistrate. I know of no one on a Council or what they may do.. and if I do not know of one, does the average citizen of Haven?"
*Looks around*
"The way I see it from my experience, if the the people didn't want Fiona to be in charge, we already would have heard of it...a Queen does not ask her people permission to do something, she does what she needs to do hopefully for the betterment of her people.. and if she doesn't.. that is how revolutions start.. so I would say Fiona so far has a pretty good shot at staying in her position. Dallid if you wish to make the rounds of the villages spreading the word that Fiona is t be our new Queen , if that is her wish, then so be it... the people should know.. heck this would be a perfect test of the Messenger service Korrigan has been working on."
*Takes a breath*
"Sory for being so long-winded, I get a little excitable when politics start coming up.. I do say though in my opinion the sooner the better.. the sooner we show a united front to any enemies the better for Haven."
"There is not a representative council currently. One is needed immediately. The Magistrates used to serve this role, but they - now I - am not sufficient representation of Havens citizens. The formation of this council must be a top priority."
"You speak of tratitional monarchy, Barry, where the ruler holds all the power. Its citizens must do as the monarchy says and accept all decisions without question because they have no other choice. The power in Haven, however, is held by the citizens. The Queen serves them, not the other way around."
"While I agree making Fionna's role as leader permanent should cause little stir among the citizens, making such a move *without* first consulting them would alienate a great many."
"There are no shortcuts. Even the most obvious course of action must first be presented to the citizenry, lest they begin to wonder what other dicisions involving thier town are being made without their knowledge. And, indeed, deciding such things is a slippery slope."
"Power corrupts. We've seen it happen. Should any choice be considered too small or too obvious to put before the citizenry, soon other choices - larger and more controversial - will be kept behind closed doors as well. Doing so is so much easier, but can cause catastrophic turmoil later. There can be no shortcuts, and the Queen, Steward, and Council must all watch each other for such slippage."
"You speak of tratitional monarchy, Barry, where the ruler holds all the power. Its citizens must do as the monarchy says and accept all decisions without question because they have no other choice. The power in Haven, however, is held by the citizens. The Queen serves them, not the other way around."
"While I agree making Fionna's role as leader permanent should cause little stir among the citizens, making such a move *without* first consulting them would alienate a great many."
"There are no shortcuts. Even the most obvious course of action must first be presented to the citizenry, lest they begin to wonder what other dicisions involving thier town are being made without their knowledge. And, indeed, deciding such things is a slippery slope."
"Power corrupts. We've seen it happen. Should any choice be considered too small or too obvious to put before the citizenry, soon other choices - larger and more controversial - will be kept behind closed doors as well. Doing so is so much easier, but can cause catastrophic turmoil later. There can be no shortcuts, and the Queen, Steward, and Council must all watch each other for such slippage."
Learn the past. Observe the present. Guide the future.
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BarrytheBartender
- New in Town
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:42 am
"Well I will certainly say I have seen some leaders abuse their power and their people.. and history has seen most of them burned, hung, or destroyed in some way by their people or others more powerful. A Leader who tries to wield unyielding power over their people usually does not reign long, although I am sure history has a few exceptions to that too."
*grins*
"And don't get me started on councils...the city I grew up had one and the cutthroats and thieves of the city loved the council.. nothing ever got done and half the council was on their payroll to make sure it stayed that way.. of course that is an extreme I am sure.. no one here could possibly be corrupted or tempted.."
"By the way I love playing devils advocate, so please do not take offense at my words."
*grins*
"And don't get me started on councils...the city I grew up had one and the cutthroats and thieves of the city loved the council.. nothing ever got done and half the council was on their payroll to make sure it stayed that way.. of course that is an extreme I am sure.. no one here could possibly be corrupted or tempted.."
"By the way I love playing devils advocate, so please do not take offense at my words."
I simply don't understand what the point of having a Leader is if every little thing they do must first be approved by a Council. And if the council doesn't like it, the Leader can't do it. That's just a council having all the power with a leader that has their hands tied behind their back as an impotent puppet while the Council debates everything.
That's not being "in charge", that's having a bunch of nanny's that you have to check with all the time. A leader can be cut-and-dry with the people they lead without the need for that. And there are times in this place when a decision just needs to get made right when it comes up, not endlessly debated by a council. Too much of that and we'll eventually have a state where when some outlying farm is attacked, the "Council will have to be convened' to decide what to do about it and who to send out on the mission, rather than just whomsoever's in charge simply rounding up and sending a rescue party of volunteers.
Or if for instance, I heard of a threat and decided there wasn't time for a debate and took a bunch of people to go help, I don't want to have to answer to some angry Council member when I get back because I didn't check with them first and they think they deserve that because they are on "The Council" and I'm just an everyday person.
The balance of having to deal with all the buckets of grief that a leader has to put up with is the privilege of having the people they are in charge of trust them when making a decision- and it's not trust when people constantly try to undermine every decision that gets made because a couple of people don't like it, and that's all that seems to be happening around here.
A leader making decisions for the people and a Council telling the leader what decisions they are allowed to make- and that is what a council will eventually turn into- are the same thing when it comes to everyone else who isn't one of those people on the Council.
That's not being "in charge", that's having a bunch of nanny's that you have to check with all the time. A leader can be cut-and-dry with the people they lead without the need for that. And there are times in this place when a decision just needs to get made right when it comes up, not endlessly debated by a council. Too much of that and we'll eventually have a state where when some outlying farm is attacked, the "Council will have to be convened' to decide what to do about it and who to send out on the mission, rather than just whomsoever's in charge simply rounding up and sending a rescue party of volunteers.
Or if for instance, I heard of a threat and decided there wasn't time for a debate and took a bunch of people to go help, I don't want to have to answer to some angry Council member when I get back because I didn't check with them first and they think they deserve that because they are on "The Council" and I'm just an everyday person.
The balance of having to deal with all the buckets of grief that a leader has to put up with is the privilege of having the people they are in charge of trust them when making a decision- and it's not trust when people constantly try to undermine every decision that gets made because a couple of people don't like it, and that's all that seems to be happening around here.
A leader making decisions for the people and a Council telling the leader what decisions they are allowed to make- and that is what a council will eventually turn into- are the same thing when it comes to everyone else who isn't one of those people on the Council.
-Evil always prevails when good people do nothing.
-All knight, every night.
-All knight, every night.