LV.4 discipline weapon focus

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:41 pm

...my work is done here...

Garritt · Post by **Garritt** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:43 pm

that wold give warrior a less number of skills then the other opaths I do believe.

No, just less choices in a list used to fill those 4 master Path slots with.

If you took out Weapon Proficiency, warrior skills would still be expanded from the ones they used to be before the expansion, simply because of the other choices from Heroes & Villains. The old four Master skills used to make people happy before.........

Salvatore_Tenhammers · Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:16 pm

Wyrmwrath wrote:Who cares if the warrior has less? If it matters that much give him advanced sandwich making and call it a day!

Listen, the paths DO NOT have to be cookie cutter balanced. They just don't. In fact they shouldn't be. They should have the skills needed to be what they were designed to be, no more no less. If that means wizard has 6 skills per level and warrior has 3...fine. Then that's all they need.

Warriors aren't all that diverse, not like a sage or wizard should be. They hit things and protect things. That's what they do, and as they are set they do that well. I think rogues are TOO competent in combat. They should get great reward on combat skills, but those skills should be a challenge to deliver because they have to be sneaky to hit the vital areas.

Each of the paths have a combat role by their concept:

Warriors = front line
Rogues = infantry type flanking troops
Empaths = field artillery
Healers = DUH
Sages = intelligence gathering/leadership
wizards = special weapons

Why does everyone want to take the paths and bend em to a role they aren't designed to be?!?!?

If you want to be a bad ass fighter ....DUH take a warrior. You cant do better for toe to toe combat...not even with a rogue.

Can there be less droning on and on about this mysterious balance thet isnt really supposed to exist in a game system for PC building since it supposed to come from the DMing end of it? Thats where the classes are supposed to get balanced, by the encounters the staff sets up. they are the ones that are supposed to be making sure that a class/path has its time to shine without outshining the others.

QFT

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:18 am

QFT

WTF?

Salvatore_Tenhammers · Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:30 am

Wyrmwrath wrote:
QFT
WTF?

QFT = Quoted For Truth

It's a quick way to say "Everything here I agree with"

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:41 am

i feel so old now...

Altearez · Post by **Altearez** » Wed May 04, 2011 9:45 am

last I checked the game was about the role playing, giving people the same amount OPTIONS aka SKILLS makes them balanced in a way that each path has the same amount of diversity/options.

Example-having the same amount of skills per path is like giving everyone 20$ and give one person one person 19$ to buy stuff with because one of their dollars is better looking the the others.

Why does everyone want to take the paths and bend em to a role they aren't designed to be?!?!?

I thought they were designed to be interpreted as suggestions of how to Role play the path, should we not explore new ideas and possibly good rp'ing possibilities.

letting people play they want to with a path creates a much larger possibility for diversity in the game.

letting people pick skills more diversly makes for a more diverse character and it gives them the skills to back up why they are the way they are.

Really, because i dont see the logic to support that. Have you ever created a RPG/LARP? I have with my ex wife. The number of skills a specific class/path has has nothing to do with balance and doesnt need to be the same unless your just anal about symetry. Life isnt symetrical.

actually Leo and I do run a small little game.

Quote:
Also every skill gives someone a choice to make a character different or play differently in a situation, thats a good reason why everyone must have the same amount as well.

Again, I see no logic to support that. the fact that every skill gives a player an option to be different in no way correlates to the need for classes/paths to have the same number of skills. They are unrelated.

I do see logic to support that, giving paths the same amounts of options gives each path the opportunity to have the same amount of different possible reactions in any situation, so each paths can react 12 different ways every time(yes I know not all those skills can actually be used in a situation), (I know its not that exact but when there are not many ways to measure/balance this game I do believe giving each path the same amount of skills/options does help to make them more balanced and equal)

Quote:
As well, the GM's can't plan for other PC's out RPing PC's who have the skill just don't use it fast enough.

no idea what that means

I think he is trying to say that A pc without spot can roleplay their way into the information without the skill before a PC with spot even thinks to use it.

Leo · Post by **Leo** » Wed May 04, 2011 9:55 am

I think he is trying to say that A pc without spot can roleplay their way into the information without the skill before a PC with spot even thinks to use it.

Exactly.

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Wed May 04, 2011 10:20 am

Due to the nature of the game it is probably most fair to allow each path 12 skills for the sake of consistancy. All those skills do not have to be balanced on an individual basis however the group they belong to should be. Maybe you get 4 ok skills or 1 super great one and 3 poor ones. As long as overall it balances out you have achieved the goal of making the game fair for anyone who plays it.

As the game currently stands you can combine paths, disciplines, individual skills, and roleplay to create any kind of character you want. However you will need to be smart about it. This stands true for any game. There is nothing wrong with using the rules to the max to roleplay your character. You can't play a mighty warrior and not have the mechanics to back it up. Sorry, I don't care how good of a roleplayer you are you don't get the same bonuses I get for being a Diplomat. I sacrificed the points, I get the advantage.

Roleplay is not the be all end all of the game, it is part of it much like the rules. As a matter of fact rules help facilitate good roleplaying.

The paths are geared towards archtypes. That is normal as most people usually want to play in one of these roles. However disciplines are the other half of the equasion everyone is ignoring for some reason.

Broaden your view of the game and you will see a lot more open up to you as far as mechanics as well as roleplay opportunities.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Wed May 04, 2011 11:07 am

last I checked the game was about the role playing, giving people the same amount OPTIONS aka SKILLS makes them balanced in a way that each path has the same amount of diversity/options.

Your talking about two unrelated things here. Role playing and skills / game mechanics & balance. They have NOTHING to do with the other.
Also, just because one path has the same NUMBEr of skills as the others doesnt mean they are balanced. It means they are symetrical. Balance and symetry are not the same thing.

Code: Select all

Example-having the same amount of skills per path is like giving everyone 20$ and give one person one person 19$ to buy stuff with because one of their dollars is better looking the the others.

More accurately, its like giving 4 people 20 US dollars, and a 5th 20 Canadian dollars. they all have symetrical NUMBEr of dollars, but the one with the canadian dollars can do more with that money. Balance is about overall effectiveness in the role intended, NOT individual number of skills.

Quote:
Why does everyone want to take the paths and bend em to a role they aren't designed to be?!?!?

I thought they were designed to be interpreted as suggestions of how to Role play the path, should we not explore new ideas and possibly good rp'ing possibilities.

Yes you should explore, but what your toutong is a player should be able to take rogue skills and be as effective a fron t line fighter as a full warrior build. Thats should absolutely NOT be the case. If you want to try a front line fighter with a roguish flare, take warrior swachbuckler with a fre roge path skills. Trying to get the GMs to make alter rules or add skills so your rogue can be a front line fighter when you wont take the skills designed to BE a front line guy, is a gamer paradigm, not a role playing one.
Of cource you CAN take the rogue path, play him as a front line fighter personality as long as you understand he will just not be as effective.

letting people play they want to with a path creates a much larger possibility for diversity in the game.

agreed, and that is how it is, they can already play what they want to. The issue comes in when they take a path that isnt created to play a role they are trying to have the Pc strive for and then gripe about how unfair or unbalanced the skills are.

letting people pick skills more diversly makes for a more diverse character and it gives them the skills to back up why they are the way they are.

SKills have nothing to do with the diversity of the CHARACTERS, just the diversity of the abilities the CHARACTERS have. Skills do NOT provide the reason the CHARACTERS are who and what they are. Thats ALL backstory/character history. Skills are a RESULT of the history, not a justifacation for it.

Quote:
Really, because i dont see the logic to support that. Have you ever created a RPG/LARP? I have with my ex wife. The number of skills a specific class/path has has nothing to do with balance and doesnt need to be the same unless your just anal about symetry. Life isnt symetrical.

actually Leo and I do run a small little game.

Then id love to see the rules, because Id bet cash the rules are based on gamer mentality not a RP one.

Also every skill gives someone a choice to make a character different or play differently in a situation, thats a good reason why everyone must have the same amount as well.

Wrong again. Skills have nothing to do with how a PC is role played or how they are different. They only vary what the PC can do.

I think that is what your hangup is. You are stuck with the mindset that what a PC does is who they are. That isnt the case with characters or real people. Roleplaying is about exploring what motivates a character, how they will view and react to the events and others they encounter, the choices they will make, the story they will live and tell. Their skills are just window dressings that influence the method they take thier journeys.

Again, I see no logic to support that. the fact that every skill gives a player an option to be different in no way correlates to the need for classes/paths to have the same number of skills. They are unrelated.

I do see logic to support that, giving paths the same amounts of options gives each path the opportunity to have the same amount of different possible reactions in any situation,so each paths can react 12 different ways every time

Again wrong. Just because the sage has the same number of skills as a warrior, doesnt mean he has the same number of options when attacked in by an orc. Reverse is also true, the warrior may have the same number of path skills, but NO options when trying to gather information compared to the sage.

I know its not that exact but when there are not many ways to measure/balance this game I do believe giving each path the same amount of skills/options does help to make them more balanced and equal

I think that is THE issue here. You are trying to quantify and measure what isnt meant to be measured. You are trying to get balance of a small scale when balancing the mechanics of a LARP is a big picture issue.

I think he is trying to say that A pc without spot can roleplay their way into the information without the skill before a PC with spot even thinks to use it.

I dont see that as possible, since info gathering skills ar DESIGNED to give info that RP alone cant obtain. SO the GMs specificly plan for those skill uses when setting up plots so that the PCs with such skills HAVE thier time to shine and with the intent that the need for those skills IS the balancing they are supposed to provide.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Wed May 04, 2011 11:50 am

Honestly a suitable replacement for the master level warrior swap out skill: "weapon focus" would be resist fear. I mean what other path besides a warrior is archtypically faced with situations where they face fear inducing events so frequently. If any PATH should have the ability to resist fear its warrior due to the strength of courage and willpower they all need.

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Wed May 04, 2011 12:50 pm

Resist fear can really be applied to every person playing LARP. There is scary stuff everywhere and warrior isn't the only one getting in it's grill.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Wed May 04, 2011 1:16 pm

Resist fear isn't poweful enough to be a master path skill. Immunity to fear maybe.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Wed May 04, 2011 2:33 pm

immunity to fear would be okay, but i recall it said at one point that the last thing warrior needed was more immunitys/resists

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Wed May 04, 2011 3:02 pm

Resist fear can really be applied to every person playing LARP. There is scary stuff everywhere and warrior isn't the only one getting in it's grill.

True all the character types are in a dangerous world, however only the warriors "path" in life puts him face to face in every confrontation. The empath is always in the back (unless flanked), the rogue is always attacking as a "drive by" or from the read then running off, the healers are rarely up front because they are tending the injured, and sages MIGHT be front line fighters bepending on build, but its no where as often as a warrior. Hence why I say the warrior is the most fitting to get such a skill as a swap out.

Resist fear isn't poweful enough to be a master path skill. Immunity to fear maybe.

I see your point and did think of that, but an immunity seems over powered to me. Especially since it takes two skills normally to get immunity (boon and discipline or two disciplines).
I would suggest the rests mind efect from the savage chieftan discipline, but then that can render the chief several immunies if they have both AND I think resist mind effect is to much as well. Hard call