3 vorpal poison knockout vs Parry
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No worries, Tim. We all hate it when we shell out good money for something that gets taken away. This time, however, I'm sure you'll keep your item. The mechanic may change, but you'll keep your item.
Should the change be drastic enough to warrant it, just talk to the GM's about a refund of some sort. They've always been very fair (a little indulgent, even) when it comes to allowing players to review their options when the rules change around them.
Should the change be drastic enough to warrant it, just talk to the GM's about a refund of some sort. They've always been very fair (a little indulgent, even) when it comes to allowing players to review their options when the rules change around them.
GM-Taki - Final Haven GM, Winter Haven GM, Editor of the Rulebook Project.
We do make an effort not to screw anybody when we change things.
The 360 parry is broken. At the very least it should allign with the paladin self-awaken and cost two life points instead of one.
We are not balancing skills against items. The parry versus vorpal knockout debate has nothing to do with kandium armor, in my opinion. It has to do with a confusion of how things are written and the intention of skills. Desiring to get rid of kandium armor has nothing to do with the skills but with the belief that it fosters cheating as it is often used incorrectly and is difficult to enforce. I would give an example but am not interested in calling anyone out and do not want to start a debate about cheating. But people do it, you know who you are, chances are we know who you are, and eventually you'll be gone. The point is that kandium armor was intended to be pretty lame. Since everyone has it, something is wrong.
And saying parry does not stop a vorpal knockout is not a rule change. It's simply reading the skill and interpreting it correctly.
The 360 parry is broken. At the very least it should allign with the paladin self-awaken and cost two life points instead of one.
We are not balancing skills against items. The parry versus vorpal knockout debate has nothing to do with kandium armor, in my opinion. It has to do with a confusion of how things are written and the intention of skills. Desiring to get rid of kandium armor has nothing to do with the skills but with the belief that it fosters cheating as it is often used incorrectly and is difficult to enforce. I would give an example but am not interested in calling anyone out and do not want to start a debate about cheating. But people do it, you know who you are, chances are we know who you are, and eventually you'll be gone. The point is that kandium armor was intended to be pretty lame. Since everyone has it, something is wrong.
And saying parry does not stop a vorpal knockout is not a rule change. It's simply reading the skill and interpreting it correctly.
- Kalphoenix
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My issue is generally with grandfathering. As long as everything remains consistent across the board, and no one gets a "special" because they/their item existed before the change, I'm generally ok with it.
GMs are generally pretty good about resolving issues like this in some way though.
And on upkeep, if an item is balanced, you still got to use it in it's existing form for "x" amount of time, which doesn't negate it's usefulness in that time period.
GMs are generally pretty good about resolving issues like this in some way though.
And on upkeep, if an item is balanced, you still got to use it in it's existing form for "x" amount of time, which doesn't negate it's usefulness in that time period.
Samuria issues, dont really hate Samurias 360 parry, i hate how good all its skills are, and i dont care that it buggered assassins, its a master level skill, same as man at arms, like i siad its just got some of the best skills in the game.
parry not stoping vorpal knockout, Nelkie and Reid said it was broken, and thats all i have to say on that.
balancing by upkeep, will ALWAYS hate this idea, dont care, will always hate it.
parry not stoping vorpal knockout, Nelkie and Reid said it was broken, and thats all i have to say on that.
balancing by upkeep, will ALWAYS hate this idea, dont care, will always hate it.
Nelkie and Reid did not say that parry not working against vorpal knockout was broken. They said the assassin skill was broken if it could get by parry AND be attached to other things, like a channel or whatnot. I don't think they would have any issue whatsoever if it could just get by parry.
Of course, without the assassin skill as is, then they have a utilize poison skill with little hope of ever utilizing poison, unless they are an archer or willing to break their weapons every time...
Of course, without the assassin skill as is, then they have a utilize poison skill with little hope of ever utilizing poison, unless they are an archer or willing to break their weapons every time...
turns on the Reid Nelkie signal on the roof of the Finalhaven building
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
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Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
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Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
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I guess I can weigh in here. I've stayed away from posting for so long now though...
Anyway, more or less agree with Mike. And yeah, I don't believe I said *anything* in this thread unless somehow I've become a Nelkie (which may also be true).
Would Parry work on vorpal knockout? No. However, we have/had for many years used it otherwise from lack of paying attention. Honestly, I'm quite sure I've never been hit with a vorpal knockout since the change to assassin. So we are talking maybe one or two infractions over 3-4 years.
Is this a problem? Currently, meh. Assassin 4 is kinda cool, but I'd have to look at it more to be sure one way or the other. If Assassin 4 went back to just 'Sleep' or 'Vorpal Knockout' (no number), it'd probably fit better. Poison skill is slightly worse but still useful. And if you really want poison someone either break a weapon or be a swash.
As for the Kandy armor and Samuari, yeah, not touching it or many of the potions, spells, etc that blossomed in that era.
Anyway, more or less agree with Mike. And yeah, I don't believe I said *anything* in this thread unless somehow I've become a Nelkie (which may also be true).
Would Parry work on vorpal knockout? No. However, we have/had for many years used it otherwise from lack of paying attention. Honestly, I'm quite sure I've never been hit with a vorpal knockout since the change to assassin. So we are talking maybe one or two infractions over 3-4 years.
Is this a problem? Currently, meh. Assassin 4 is kinda cool, but I'd have to look at it more to be sure one way or the other. If Assassin 4 went back to just 'Sleep' or 'Vorpal Knockout' (no number), it'd probably fit better. Poison skill is slightly worse but still useful. And if you really want poison someone either break a weapon or be a swash.
As for the Kandy armor and Samuari, yeah, not touching it or many of the potions, spells, etc that blossomed in that era.
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.
- Onimaster
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I wanted to offer my opinion.
I think the rules on vorpal knock out are pretty clear. I agree with most of what Chris said, and I remember talking about this when we made the change to assassin. Vorpal Knockout = Sleep (only you need two skills to make it work rather than 1).
I do not feel Samurai is broken at all. To get the 360 degree parry you need a Master Level Path AND a master level discipline, and samurai can't use a shield or else none of their samurai abilities work. That was built into the discipline specifically to tame the parry. Yeah, they can take some big hits from the back, but they are wide open to anyone swinging 1's from every direction. And, any person with a packet is WIDE OPEN.
I think the rules on vorpal knock out are pretty clear. I agree with most of what Chris said, and I remember talking about this when we made the change to assassin. Vorpal Knockout = Sleep (only you need two skills to make it work rather than 1).
I do not feel Samurai is broken at all. To get the 360 degree parry you need a Master Level Path AND a master level discipline, and samurai can't use a shield or else none of their samurai abilities work. That was built into the discipline specifically to tame the parry. Yeah, they can take some big hits from the back, but they are wide open to anyone swinging 1's from every direction. And, any person with a packet is WIDE OPEN.
Vaal Draconus,
Dwarven King
Survivor of the Dreaming
& Champion of Life.
or
Nikolai Petrov,
Traveling Cossack Sage
Dwarven King
Survivor of the Dreaming
& Champion of Life.
or
Nikolai Petrov,
Traveling Cossack Sage
- Kalphoenix
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I'm with Matt on this one ( ) I don't feel it's broken for the same reason as above.Onimaster wrote: I do not feel Samurai is broken at all. To get the 360 degree parry you need a Master Level Path AND a master level discipline, and samurai can't use a shield or else none of their samurai abilities work.
HOWEVER, I didn't believe Paladin's self awaken needed "fixing" either to a 2 LP cost (It was in a similar boat, you had to have a specific build...you had to be a level 4 Paladin AND have awaken to get self-awaken ala an immunity, unless I have no idea what I am talking about). Again, I feel Samurai is less broken BECAUSE of what it requires/penalties.
I hate FH rule discussions. I'm going to go now. Have fun.
The main reason why i don't like samurai is because it gives a master path skill as a 4th lvl discipline. I don't like it. For example, I'm a master warrior who has a discipline that gives me greater channel, or mimic, or mass heal, take your pick. I think that all disciplines should have lvl 4 abilities that aren't master path skills. With hidden disciplines like samurai around means that you could potentially take a full path like empath, and then get mass heal from healer! I know these don't exist and they don't exist for that reason. That's what I think. Just statin my oppinion though.
"Taunt!" (that means bring it...)
- Onimaster
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Combat Reflexes is a Master Path skill... Should we remove all other access to that skill too?
How about all abilities and items that replicate any one else's skills?
We work with what we can to create interesting combinations and diversity within the scope of the game. The discipline has an intrinsic factor to make it less valuable than the Path skill.
How about all abilities and items that replicate any one else's skills?
We work with what we can to create interesting combinations and diversity within the scope of the game. The discipline has an intrinsic factor to make it less valuable than the Path skill.
Vaal Draconus,
Dwarven King
Survivor of the Dreaming
& Champion of Life.
or
Nikolai Petrov,
Traveling Cossack Sage
Dwarven King
Survivor of the Dreaming
& Champion of Life.
or
Nikolai Petrov,
Traveling Cossack Sage
Onimaster wrote:Combat Reflexes is a Master Path skill... Should we remove all other access to that skill too?
-Thats just adding soak to the warrior, but i have no problem making everyone weaker so the warrior is stronger, lets do it
How about all abilities and items that replicate any one else's skills?
-I feel all items all together should go
We work with what we can to create interesting combinations and diversity within the scope of the game. The discipline has an intrinsic factor to make it less valuable than the Path skill
-but parry is still one of the best skills of the game, and if you made a discipline that had master channel as its 4th skill, even if you couldnt wear armor or use a shield, and made it available, you would se ALOT of people take it, and a drop people playing empaths, same if it was the rouge Critical Strike, there would be almost no rouges, and everyone would have the discipline, it would be sick.
i will once again point out, that i agree with Reid that items, spells, and potions are all broken
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
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Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
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Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
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If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.