Real vs Fake Armor

Post by **GM-Mike** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:59 pm

There is a terminology problem that a lot of people are having. We are using terms like real and fake but we don't really mean it. Chris is simply saying that the armor has to look good. It can be made out of whatever you want, as long as it looks good and in period. He's struggling with what to do for people who go the extra mile and actually have real armor.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:01 pm

Different things for different uses.

Those sharks can still break your bones, they couldn't in plate although they could puncture the plate easier.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:16 pm

The difference between chain and plate, is chain is no where near as combersome and does not restirct movement to the point plate does!! Eric always said, it was easier and less tiring to wear my 30lb chain shirt vrs his plate.

Their are 2 different idea's going on here
1. reward the people who go the extra mile with a minor benifit that does not increase a person's soak
2. Your armor is what it is, and you must spend points to increase it to the next armor category.

Both are good ideas and reward the people who go the extra mile! I like the point idea because it make judging easier becasue there is always a way to get the armor level a player wants by spending points. Personal, I would create a medium set of armor which I can move some what freely in and pay the 20 points and be considered in full armor instead of wearing heavy plate armor. plate armor is hot, heavy, hard to move in, etc... It's worth 20 points to by pass that

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:24 pm

We could give the skill to those in the real plate, but then ofcourse we just increased soak LOL.

Honestly, I thought the plate I wore was a bunch nicer than the chain shirt.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:26 pm

Question, please explain how soak has been increased with Erik's and my ideas? I don't see it

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:33 pm

If the bonus for plate idea is the way we want to go, than what will be considered heavy armor? Chain, heavy leather?
Right now we have alot of people in heavy leather armor that is considered fake heavy. We can keep it as is and just give people some bonus's who where plate. Off the top of my head that is Doughm Eric, Kevin (Khal).

As I said, either way works

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:43 pm

Wasnt talking about your idea, but lets talk about them since i just ignored them.

Upkeep
If we went with that solution then that would mean that each armor piece would need to have 3 designations based on what ever you would want to call it. For example, lets say you had hardened leather that was in period and looked awesome so..

If you wanted to call it light armor maybe you get no upkeep cost. If you call it medium armor then maybe you pay half price. If you call it heavy then maybe you pay 150%

This means when we are policing on the back end we have to pay attentin to not only every armor tag, but what your intention was when using the said armor tag. Pain in the ass.

2) Just like combat relexes has the same issue as above and then what you have is piece meal on how you repair it.

3) Armor is auto quality. Again it would be based on how you used it. NOW with the skill idea and something already deemed heavy armor I could see getting quality for free.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:44 pm

I would say that plate is someting pretty out of the ordinary to have to rule the 'fake' vs 'real' thing. Either they are wearing full plate, or something out of other materials (Leather, pickle barrel plastic) that cost enough that you wont see more than a couple scattered instances.

It's mostly light and medium that you can imitate with modern materials, and even medium is hard to do.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:58 pm

The bonus would only apply to plate armor, no other.

Upkeep is easy, if it is in period plate, you don't have to pay upkeep.

Combat reflex idea, if all your locations are in period plate, than you don't need a craftsman to repair your armor. If you have 1 piece that is not, you still need it repaired. It just shifts the number of combat relfexs person has vrs the number of armor point they have. You repair an entire suit, not eachlocation.

Quality, works for me, but can have double quality!!

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:41 pm

In anycase I really really did not want to get into a rule discussuon and yet again got into one which so everyone knows just makes me want to quit the game, it is really just that annoying to me.

All I care about is juding armor because no matter what system we go with armor needs judged.

Why?

1) Well because we all think something different.
2) As in another thread there is no way I am going to spend $1500 on flat rivited real chain with hardned leather over top all overtop 15 pounds of football gear to have some rule tell me it isn't full plate. I am just not enough of a RP'er to care. Instead I would wear 1 pound of fake vinle and make you call it fake plate so I am more mobile.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:11 pm

Hence the 10 foot rule. If it doesn't look like platemail from 10 feet away, you can't call it that. You can bump it up to 20 feet if it makes people feel better.

The only reason I would wear full plate is because I wanted to look that cool and boost my ego. No rules mechanic needed. It's heavier than someone in pickle barrel plastic, but that doesn't matter, I chose to wear it.

I could wear a full set of armor made from modern materials, but I don't wanna, because period armor makes me feel more in-game. I don't care if I don't get any more of a bonus than someone with 'fake' material armor.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:16 pm

You are a noble character.

I on the other hand would put on a paper bag if I could weezle 13 armor points out of it.

Ok I might be joking here. I wouldnt really do that, but others would. It is not fair. It is like saying cops shouldnt get paid because they should just love to serve. If you do the effort, if you spend the money then you should get something for it. Plain and simply.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:55 pm

I totaly agree!! You put the effort in, you should be rewarded!

The question is, what is the reward?

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:19 pm

I can get 13 armor from a paper bag?

I really have nothing of value to add here but am at lunch and am thus bored as no one speaks english here. But onn a side note, the reason I never finished off my shoulders or leg guards, or upgraded the helm is there was never a big reason to do so. The benefit of 1 or 2 armor points and not having to take off the legs to get them repaired really wasn't that big of a deal. Admitedly, I didn't know about the shoulders deal, so finishing them would have given me full arms (I already had forearms) which probably would have prompted me to do so.

So, yes, Ka was rarely wearing more than medium. Ever wonder how I got away with healing and first aid by only removing my helmet? I did however make sure everyone believed he wore full heavy as it helped the mystique.

Now you all know his secret, feel free to try and use knockout on him.

Slisk · Post by **Slisk** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:46 am

The coolness factor is definitely very high. I found lots of people treating Slisk like a premier warrior - practically on level with Ka - simply because he looked the part. He actually sucked more at physical combat than Dallid or Amagus because the armor slowed me down and limited my movements.

So while there were many veteran warriors who were more effective on a mission than Slisk, he seemed attributed greater value then them because of his appearance.