Magic Changes Feedback.

What did you think of the last event? Post your opinions and disucss the comments of others here!

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Phinkis
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Magic Changes Feedback.

Post by Phinkis »

I debated where to start this post. I decided to do it here in hopes to see how other people feel about the new magic system as well. I personally would like to hear what non magus players have to say but I think everyone's feedback would be helpful.

The things I like about the new magic system.
1) Everyone can cast spells. I actually like the added diversity. It was neat seeing non caster types find ways to use some of these. Not a lot of people jumped on the spell train in the beginning but at the end of the year there were a few non magus' that had embraced the new system and I think more people were warming up to the idea. I think going backward from that now would be a mistake.

2) Essence Points are a thing now. This is going to be in both like and dislikes. I like that there is a way to fuel things other than life points now. I'll cover the dislikes in that section of my post.

3) Rituals are cool. They obviously need some work yet but they help promote people working together. I don't think every spell should be castable as a ritual.

4) Scrolls are a nice way for others to cast spells. My only concerns is that they were too common, because of the play test, and they should cost have a reduced essence cost so more people can utilize them.

Things I disliked about the new magic system.
1) It felt very rushed and it seemed to come out of nowhere. As I already stated I like that everyone can now cast spells but it was like no one was ready for such a drastic change. I know how much work went into making it happen but I think it may have been smoother if it had been introduced gradually somehow. There are a lot of new aspects that were added with this change and this past year of testing has revealed a lot of things that need to fixed, better explained or improved.

2) Essence Points are a thing now. So another resource to track isn't that bad but it seems like if you want to cast spells, even as a magus, you have to work really hard to get a large enough essence pool. This means that some spells are out of reach to everyone except the high level magus' and even then they have to sacrifice a lot to be able to cast them.

3) Game Stops. There are too many, they are longer then ever, and in the end, pointless. There are now even more ways to call a Game Stop then before. There are also reaction spells now that increase the length of game stops. Add let's not forget that the bad guys want to do epic things as well. All of this can bring a massive battle for survival to a grinding halt. The worst part is, in many cases, nothing actually happens. Counter Spell, Spell Wall, Dive for Cover, Blink, Transpose, and who knows what else I forgot all mean that all those times that disrupt play end up doing very little. Now, I don't think Game Stops need to go away completely but it's obvious that something needs to happen to reign them in.

4) The spells didn't seem very balanced. There were more than a few spells that felt like they were useless or cost too much while other spells were felt much more powerful but cheaper, likely so they could be used by more than just magus.

5) Too much variation in casting times. It's even worse if you're a Magus...

6) Spell sharing is too easy. There needs to be some way to prevent book passing.

7) So many spell components. They seem unnecessary and spells are too costly for non Magus characters. There is already mystic, which has very little use now that magic items have no upkeep. Sure, you can use 2 mystic in the place of one spell component but from what I've seen that's really not worth it.

So that's the way I felt on the new magic system in general. But wait, there's more!

Magus, the good the bad and the other.

I have always preferred playing magic users in games and though magus is new and very rough, I'm enjoying it! When the change happened I was sad to see Wizard go and be replaced by this new Magus thing. Phinkis changed drastically in the blink of an eye and I wasn't sure if I was going to even keep playing. I noticed some things right from the start that I didn't like and so the first event I only stayed for a short time to voice my concerns, dip my toes in the new magical waters and then I left. The next event I showed up a little late but I stayed for the whole time. I started to get to really see magus at work. As I played I noticed more and more things that concerned me but I also started realizing that none of my concerns made my character less fun. It's my hope that we can work out the issues and make Magus, and the new magic system, even better!

Before I start getting into the skills I want go over a couple things. Fist off, spell acquisition. A starting Magus get's no spells to start, and that's fine. A warrior doesn't get a weapon or armor unless they buy it either, but the costs of spells seems a little high for starting points. Next up, is that all of the magus skills are too good. That seems like an odd complaint. I don't mean to say the skills are too powerful, in fact I feel some could be better but it feels like you NEED to have more than 4 at each level to be effective. Ok, on with the show!

Basic Magus Skills
Vigor - It's a solid skill but I'm not sure why it's here. It seems like it was placed here more for other paths to pick up and easy 1 LP for 20 points.
Essence Increase - Another good skill. I feel it would make a much better first skill for the path. Making magic available to everyone was the whole point of the change right?
Quicken Casting - I hate this skill, it's overly complicated. As it stands though you have to have this skill and it's partner further down.
Essence Blast - Seems too empathy to me. I would rather see it turned into a spell and maybe interact with an empath's natural ability to throw magic.
Imbue Essence - I love this skill! It makes my much, lower LP total tolerable.
Sense Essence - This is a solid skill.
Durable Components - I hate the components but I like this skill. It's a must for a Magus to have a means to bypass material components since spells is all they really do.

Advanced Magus Skills
Arcane Regeneration - A must have skill, might be better in basic though. As it is now a basic magus is out for a while unless someone helps them recover their essence.
Essence Increase - Still a solid skill, though I've always hated skills that are the same at basic and advanced.
Cause Fear - Another skill that feels like it belongs in empath or as a spell.
Learn/Unlearn Spell - I like this skill. Keeps my spells safe. Right now it's a little weak since unlearned spells can be traded freely, but that's a different issue.
Armored Magus - This is a solid skill.
Ritual Magic - A little underwhelming actually. Sure, we cast a couple plot spells with some huge numbers but if we hadn't been able to cast it we would have found another way. Also, we were using it wrong, my bad... :oops: Unless some rituals go in that are variable cost then this skill isn't that great.

Master Magus Skills
Quicken Casting - I hate this skill, it's overly complicated. As it stands though you have to have this skill and it's partner further up.(Yeah, I copy pasted this and changed the last word, so what?)
Improved Essence Increase - MOOOORE POWER! Nice solid skill here.
Improve Spell - This is a great skill but I think it doesn't need to be a skill, I will explain...
Master of Magic - Awoken spells! Cool idea, spells that are more powerful then other spells so only a true Magus can cast them. Some may even be just like other spells but improved versions. See what I'm getting at here? Having to invest 2 master skills into casting better spells seems a bit much.
Negate Magic - I like this skill! I especially like the lash resist portion because it can still save people without completely negating the effect.
Modify Spell - This is a great ability! The only thing I would say is that every spell that has a call should contain magic by default.

Well, that's where I'm going to end this for now. Later on I will come back and give my feedback on the spells and even later than that I'll start my very own post on what I think we can do to improve things!
Phinkis
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Re: Magic Changes Feedback.

Post by Phinkis »

So, here is part two of my magic feedback. I'll cover each spell by level, even though I'm not a huge fan of the current levels. Also, I'm not going to focus on essence/component costs or cast times for the most part, there will be exceptions though.

Level 1 Spells
About Face - Very limited use. Another reaction to gum up Game Stops and the improved version could be another way to avoid a Game Stop effect.
Blood Rage - I heard some people like it, though I can't be sure because I can't use it. I love the idea of spells that have special interactions with other skills but I think it should have a basic use as well.
Death Link - Or, how to confuse the heck out of people by using the same spell name twice. This is the item transfer version. Seems like a neat spell, but it's already a wordy spell and it still needs more clarifications.(Like, it says the item has to be in my possession to cast the spell but what if it's not in my possession when I die?)
Deep Pockets - Good spell, maybe too good. The cost that must be paid even if you have durable components is a nice balancing factor. Also, what happens to the extra items you're carrying if you die? Do they explode and go everywhere or do you still have to be searched to find them?
Delay Poison - Nice spell.
Empower - Oh, let's confuse people even more and make 2 empowers too! This version is the reaction heal. Since the reaction doesn't really take any extra time it's not too bad. When does the improved version happen? Right as I'm being hit or after the effect finishes? This could be important to determine if the people who get hit after me get healed if they were already full.
Essence Fervor - Cool concept, but mostly pointless. So if you're not a magus you spend a magic clay and 3 essence to lower the cost of another spell by 1 component or 5 essence by 2 components. If you are a magus, with improved spell, and happen to have a magic clay somehow but none of your other components you can reduce it even further, 7 essence for 3 components or 9 essence for 4 components. That's in addition to the normal essence cost of the other spell you are casting. It just doesn't seem like it'll ever be that helpful.
False Courage - It's a fun spell. I'm not sure how much it will actually come in useful, most things swing until they drop anyway, but I can see some interesting role playing happening because of this spell.
Find Magic - Or as I like to call it, Find Red X plot. Another fun spell. It's too bad it's spell only but I understand why. I would like to see the cost changed to a variable amount and the have the difficulty based off of that instead of that being an improved thing.
Grave Speech - Limited use spell but otherwise fine. Thumbs up for skill interaction.
Hide Item - Decent spell. Might want it to count as a talisman or reduce max essence by 1 until revealed. Also, maybe a disclaimer that hidden items can't be used while hidden? Right now there are no limits on this spell. Also, where is the reveal item spell listed?
Invigorate - This spell is amazing but it is currently broken. It's easy to see the intent of this spell was to recover from a battle quicker to keep the game moving, especially when on a long crawls. What it has become though is the improved version all the time during any combat that the PCs can see coming. We're about to go fight a huge battle? Cast this before the fight starts and it's all good. Who needs improved spell?
Knock Knock - Bonus for skill interaction but fail for no use to anyone else. Also, aren't there enough ways for a rouge to pick a lock quickly now days?
Mend - Again, I love the skill interaction but I hate that no one else can use it.
Share Disease - I like this spell. The only thing I see being an issue is the wording. It says touch the target, which I think should be delivered through a fist phys rep. Also, I think it needs to be 'Magic Disease.'
Simulacrum - I sound like a parrot yet? Skill interaction good, no other use bad. *squawk* Phinkis want a cracker.
Speak with Animals - Great spell. That is all.
Spite - It's another reaction to add more time to game stops for very little value.
Startle - Animal specific fear is ok but it adds a whole new call to that game which I don't like. Also the, may manifest in unpredictable ways, seems unnecessary.
Water Breathing - This spell is fine.

Level 2 Spells
Aura of Light - This is a powerful spell. It doesn't really add time to the Game Stop so that's nice. I also like the skill interaction.
Bad Luck - I'm not really a fan of the new odds or evens spells. The idea is neat but they make games stops longer because there is more explanation needed. Also the improved version should be 2 vorpal magic.
Compass - I can see this spell being useful from time to time but currently it seems people want to use it to find everything, and that's not how it works. I think it can be a fine spell with a little work.
Dark Vision - I like that this spell has a component more than just essence and materials. I also like the skill interaction. All in all, a great spell.
Death Link - This is the buff version. I'm not a fan of it. It takes your buff slot and if the caster dies you do to, just to gain 1 LP and Press. I'm not saying it's a bad spell, just not my cup of tea.
Enchant Weapon - It's a good spell, would be better if it had an interaction for people who already have enchant weapon.
Hoarfrost Burst - This is a cool spell because not only can it harm the caster but it hits friendlies as well. It might not get used too often but I like it.
Insight - This one makes my head spin. The first part is only useful at Final Haven as far as I know. The second part is okay except that the answer you get is one word which might not be all that helpful. The third use of the spell I can see causing trouble.
Lesser Divination - This spell has very limited use and I personally would never want to use it unless there was already an NPC set aside for narration.
Lesser Flame Storm - I think the damage is a little low on this one, always have.
Phantom Weapon - This is a solid spell.
Resourceful - As far as I can tell, this is mostly just a flavor spell and there is nothing wrong with that. Also, I'm not sure how the skill interaction is supposed to work. What are everyday items that must be crafted?
Share Power - Good spell.
Slick - Good spell.
Spark of the Spirit - To be honest, I have never really liked this spell. It's another way to reduce the fear of death from the game. Also, as it is now it is being abused with surgery to fix people who are WAY negative.
Split Power - Never have used it as I can't channel. Not sure if it's been looked at since the channel change. Would like to see a none skill use for the spell.
Transpose - Neat spell but it's a reaction that can make a game stop much longer. Also casters need to inform the target(s) that this is a Magic Press effect.

Level 3 Spells
Abundance/Plague - I'm not going to lie. I love this spell. I'm an economic player and for me it is a must. My only suggestion is to separate the two into their own spells. It made sense back in the days of wizard but it's not necessary any more.
Animate Corpse - I like this spell. I would like to see more summon/creation spells and maybe some spells that can enhance your creations.
Blink - Another cool spell that unfortunately gums up Game Stops. Also, the improved version should be a Magic Press effect if used on someone else.
Calling - This can be a great tool for the staff as long as they can keep track of what NPCs have been called and when they're supposed to show up. It could also be a nightmare for them. :evilbat:
Carapace - A defensive spell! I love it. Only thought is that it maybe should count as a talisman.
Clairvoyance - This spell is mostly pointless now. Strange enough the only real use it has is PvP.
Clear the Path - An alright spell, it's another Game Stop though.
Cry to the Void - It's a good spell. Removes some fear of death from the game though. Maybe a cost that must always be paid would balance that.
Curse/Remove Curse - I'm a huge fan of this spell. It can probably be broken into separate spells now though. Also, I have always wanted an actual description of Remove Curse.
Discombobulate - First, this spell causes an unnecessary Game Stop just so you can set up the actual spell. Next it's duration is based off how long you can yell. To finish it all off, you take damage at the end for some reason. This spell ranks in my top five least favorite spells for sure.
Focused Magic - This spell is right next to Discombobulate on the bad spells list. Takes 5 minutes to cast which can't be reduced with Quicken Casting. Then you cast another spell which also can't have it's time reduced. If you have Quicken Casting twice the longest it can take to cast any spell is 2 minutes, and that's for a spell with over 5 minutes base. So either you can cast the spell in 2 minutes and make sure the caster is protected or you take 10 minutes and hope the caster doesn't drop.
Greater Empower - Good reaction spell, low Game Stop impact. I would change the variable version to requiring a skill, such as mass heal, other than making it Path.
Heroic Stand - I think I've made it pretty clear that I love this spell. I would like to tweak it though so it's all essence based instead of LP based.
Nature's Decay - I've seen it come in handy before. I've also seen people try to abuse it but so far they have been shot down. I would like to see and official ruling on what happens to things inside a container this is used on.
Rise of the Phoenix - Another awesome spell and with multiple uses. Most people just cast this as a free 5 heal if they drop but I love the Lash Magic Taunt.
Shadow Form - This spell is a mixed bag. This is the type of skill interaction I love. The spell is barely useful for anyone other than a rogue but it still can be cast by anyone. However, the cast time is overly long and can't be reduced by Quicken Casting even though a magus would likely only have a very short time before they would have to change back. Also, the bonuses gained are based off of path and not skills so less cool.
Stench of Decay - Cool spell.
Visage of Power - I like it!

Level 4 Spells
Arctic Blast - A pretty good spell though it is a game stop. The press down mechanic has always bothered me a little.
Attack of the Elements - The most basic of game stop spells, no real issues.
Circle of Protection - It's not a bad spell but I rarely see it used.
Control Monster - Not a bad spell as long as it's used correctly.
Dance Puppets - This is a really fun spell and I love it but it can be a long game stop depending on how many people are effected and how specific the caster decides to be on placements. Also, casters need to inform people this is a press effect(should be magic press).
Deterrence - I like this spell.
Displace Time - Good spell, though it's another Game Stop. It may be a little too powerful as is.
Divination - I don't know how I feel about this one. I like the skill interaction and that there is an unskilled use. Other than that though the spell is pretty vague and the I get the limited use on PCs but I've never been a fan of that disclaimer.
Empower - The buff version. I hate this spell. Here, let me cast this on you and then do nothing until you decide to end the effect. Sure, you're much cooler but now I'm a lump and if you die, so do I. Also, it doesn't say what happens if the caster dies, which is totally a possibility since they're stuck at 0. There's just no reason for this spell.
Enfeeblement - An good spell but yet another Game Stop.
Gale - Neat idea for a reaction but it makes it harder to judge when people are walking in a straight line. It does add a little time to the game stop but not too much. I'm not sure how I feel about resisting ending the spell.
Meteor Shower - What happened to Flame Storm? This spell is fine but could have just been an improved version of Lesser Flame Storm.
Offhand - This spell is just silly and a bit unsafe. Also, it's a Game Stop, just cut it.
Polymorph - Cool idea. I dislike the cap of 4 times ever before there are side effects. I'm not opposed to side effects for the spell but I think it should be based off of frequency of use instead.
Sorcery Besieged - This spell is way too powerful as it is. It needs to be toned down or an unavoidable cost added. Maybe both.
Speed - Neat spell but really should be called slow.
Word of Death - I'm not a fan of this spell. It mimics a potion effect but is applied as a charm. I don't see the need for it.

Level 5 (Awoken) Spells
Change of Destiny - Cool idea for a spell. I hate that it only lasts 10 minutes, especially for the cost. It can take much longer than that to get a plot set up a lot of times. Also, is the life point spent permanent for ever or permanent until the end of the event? Not a fan of the first option.
Dark Recovery - A good spell.
Disruption - I like this spell but it's sort of an oxymoron. Scream specifically says it doesn't interrupt skills but then there's this... :lol:
Entrapment - Needs a little more explanation but otherwise it's a good reaction spell, barely adds to a Game Stop.
Essence Shield - I fine reaction spell, adds no time to the game stop.
Fire Wall - This spell is ridicules as it it. First off, there is no range on it. As long as you can see the two fixed objects you can place a Fire Wall between them. The damage should be magic. It's hard to tell when exactly the wall is unless you take the time to phys rep it which then slows down the game.
From Death's Grip - Have only ever seen an NPC use this spell to escape battle. It was a creative use of the spell. I don't see myself ever casting it though. I tend to stay away from things that will just kill me if I use it too many times.
Greater Clear the Path - This could have easily been an improved version of Clear the Path.
Greater Enfeeblement - Another one that could have just been an improved spell except Enfeeblement already has an improved bonus, though this spell doesn't.
Summon Creature - The idea of this spell is cool but it's execution is a nightmare. First, it makes players ask for more tags as components for the spell. Second, there is no mention of how much of a creature you need to summon it. Third, unless a better job is done of remembering creature stats then what you summon may not be anything at all like what you were hoping for. Fourth, can take an NPC from the staff side and add it to the PC side which usually already out number the staff. Fifth, if cast during combat it can cause a prolonged game stop.
Tome Ward - Cool spell but hard to regulate. What if the person opens to a different page then the inscription is on? The damage is underwhelming.
Translocation - Messy spell. Neat idea but it could cause so many complications. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.
Worst Luck - Still not a fan of the odds and evens thing. This could have been an improved spell.

It took me a while to get through them all but there we have it. I hope to put up my ideas sometime during the next couple of weeks.
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Ark
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Re: Magic Changes Feedback.

Post by Ark »

over 70 spells. . .I never thought I would see the day when a caster had more spells then arcane, and as many unique options as nearly 4 other paths. . .combined, not counting its path abilities. this pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin for my view on Magus and the new casting system, I miss Wizard so bad now.

totally cheers and props for going through and giving a quick feeling and feedback on every single path skill and spell though, that obviously took a lot of time and it shows in the detail.

the sheer amount of spells and game stops and effects and blargggg. I HATE having to reply when someone goes "*optional game stop* *insert spell name here*!" and you have to reply with ". . .okay, what does that do?" the scene just shatters into a million tiny pieces and disbelief just smacks you in the face.

still, was quite a read but FANTASTIC feedback ^_^
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
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