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im not one to complain about a topic without trying to come up with ideas to solve the problem, as that would be silly. but I will throw out any and all ideas no matter how strange or stupid so we can brainstorm and narrow down possible solutions, only one way to make a light bulb and all that.

shatter actually plays a role in this one too btw, as with the increased amount of shatter has brought out the boon of claws more and more. if shatter did not destroy weapons and armor, claws would not be in the dominant position they are now.

right now the only reason to use dual wield over claws is because you either didn't have the skill points, or for role playing reasons. they are just better. here are things that claws can do that swords cannot.
-you cannot have them taken from you (huge)
-you can use any packet driven effects through them (convenient)
-you are immune to disarm (rare but good)
-you are actually able to wield a long sword or spear with a max short claw because they are not governed under the same restriction as dual wield. (huge)
-you are immune to shatter (huge in the 3.0 meta)

they don't do more damage then dual wield, and in fact dual wield can benefit from certain weapon focuses that claws cannot (as far as I know) but they are infinitely more consistent and reliable then dual wield can ever be.

I also accept the fact that weapon sizes are just not going to change and that I have to work within the confines I have now

suggestions:
-shatter only decreases armor down to 0. this takes away a major boon claws had over swords and brings shatter into a balanced line with the other burn skills.
-allow any packet driven effect to be used through weapons, its already convoluted in that some can and others cannot and why, and is mainly just for convenience of not having to carry around packets (or a ton of them anyway)
-allow dual wield to access the 1 long and 1 tiny trope (fencer style) being able to use a long weapon and buckler or dagger as well as dual shorts.
-restrict claws to not allow other weapons or shields

after these changes make both a single skill instead of requiring 2 for claws because at this point they will have unique advantages and disadvantages associated with them and be balanced. dual wield being more versatile but with slight risk, and claws being rather straightforward but consistent and safe.

-Ark

Currently Dual Wield does allow you to use a single long weapon and one of Short or shorter length if you have the skill twice, much like Unarmed Fighting increases the length of your unarmed phys rep to short if you have it twice. Now you should not be able to wield a Unarmed phys rep in addition to a weapon phys rep unless you have dual wield as well but it does not say that anywhere. Also unarmed does not make you immune to 'Shatter', if you block a 'Shatter' with an unarmed phys rep it will surge through and 'Shatter' your armor.

so is FH embracing the whole skill stacking thing then or what? pre 3.0 some skills got more "efficient" by having a skill more then once (press, enchant weapon, escape artist, etc.) but now were getting to the point where you have to get the skill twice to get any use out of it (natural weapons, dual wield, martial training, weapon focus to an extent, essence blast boon thing, etc.)

I personally much preferred it when skills were singular and balanced unto themselves and you were well aware of what you could and could not do. historically singular skills have been more well received, example:
-assassin vorpal has been in the game forever, but was changed early on to add vorpal to a call, by **stacking** this with a knockout/sleep call you achieved the same thing because for reasons unknown to science it went through parry for y-e-a-r-s.
-now take seer and the straight up "sleep" call they had that was in actuality had less utility and diversity then assassin vorpal. . .saw SO MUCH use it was **removed** from the discipline.

when we use A, we want B to happen.

GM-Merrick wrote: but it does not say that anywhere.

that's kind of important ya'know

is the bit about shatter uniquely surging through claws for some reason in the book somewhere or is this another case of the quote above? this is only getting me more annoyed about the state of shatter. . .

Ark wrote:is the bit about shatter uniquely surging through claws for some reason in the book somewhere or is this another case of the quote above? this is only getting me more annoyed about the state of shatter. . .

From the book (p. 116):
"Shatter
This attack destroys weapons, armor and shields. If your weapon or shield is hit by Shatter it is destroyed. If you are hit anywhere else, all of your armor is destroyed. Shattered items cannot be repaired. If Shatter is preceded by a number and the number is reduced to zero, the Shatter portion has no effect."

So, if claws are not "weapons," then it surges. If claws ARE "weapons," they should be shatterable. (Fists are explicitly called out as being immune to Shatter.)

Personally, I like the idea of adding a new call that reduces armor to 0 and maybe limit the use of Shatter. Shattered armor or weapons are a bear to replace if you're in the middle of a scene. (And in my limited experience, getting gear is not nearly as easy in-game as it is to make the gear out-of-game. Just my two cents.)

thanks for the find and good discussion potentiallydead

I would love to see an armor burn skill, either shatter or its replacement. an actual **==RARE==** destruction skill like "disintegration" or something not available to the PC's if at all possible. and disarm to see more use, give empaths magic disarm, we have a very useful and balanced weapon meta skill that sees very little use. I think its because the "resist" for it was granted in warrior, the main target of the skill. and as such would not mind seeing the resist disarm removed from parry and simply added as a discipline skill.