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Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:38 am
by Kiel Reid
Cool. All the more reason to spend skill points. This prevents some person who has spent no points on disciplines that tie into the economic system from being just as efficient at farming as you.

It's not a huge amount of points. If it's your second discipline it is 60 points to be able to get holdings at no penalty. Be a Diplomat/Bureaucrat and you can hold 4! The point is that the economic system needs to become a little more exclusive and harder to benefit from. Right now the benefit to cost ratio is way off.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:19 pm
by Abaddon
I'm not against the use of skill points. :)

The game needs to be a mix of play styles because that's it's drawn.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:23 pm
by Ark
thanks for the reply Travis, gave me a perspective to think about.

I would go so far as to even restrict territory/holding ownership to a skill, and have it simply grant a territory/holding for you to RP and work with. this keeps it yours and prevents it from being taken putting all the power in your hands, as well as removes the "go find one" aspect to the current system that I personally don't like.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:34 pm
by GM-Phil
All I can say at this point is instead of mechanically changing rules, we have opted to utilize in-game changes when it comes to Territories/Holdings and the like. I believe it will allow those that want to own land and RP with it to do so. Then keeping a close eye one it for the year to see if it works as well as planned.

If it fails miserably then maybe something like Kiel's idea maybe necessary, but I really think this will be easier than making rule changes that only effect 1 chapter.

It should be a very interesting and exciting time in Haven this year.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:51 pm
by Marcus
There is no need to restrict territory and holding management to skill-only. I'm already going to have to hash things out as Marcus at some point in-game at Winterhaven, because evidently, my holding was taken out from under me over the winter with absolutely no knowledge on my part, because "someone" simply "bought it" along with the other holdings attached to that territory. While that could obviously be hearsay/lies on the part of the players, that means a holding can simply be taken away from another player who has a two-year control, roleplaying, research, and monetary investment, all during between-game over the winter with no input from me as manager.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:40 am
by GM-Phil
To Marcus - I do not know all the details on the Winterhaven side, as you said it is In-game stuff happening, therefor I do not have all the details. In regards to that though I will base my following post off what I do know.

For the Holding you were managing, you were a Holding Manager. Holding Managers are assigned by Territory Managers to help run Holdings that they cannot manage themselves. (This is all in the Heroes and Villians Expansion book). A Territory manager may reassign any Holding managers as they see fit.

Now in regards to that if you feel like you have out a lot into that Holding and feel that you have some say in it, step up. Just because someone else is a Territory Manager now, does not mean they always will be, nor does it mean that your Holding needs to always be apart of the Territory it currently is apart of. While this is not in the book, we may add it into the new book once we are able to get all the revisions done, nearly anything is possible in-game. If you do not like the way your Territories are set-up, it will probably take money an RP but you could feasibly change them up. Now in WH's case many of them are set-up due to Physical location, but the mechanical conditions could be changed.

It is hard to put every possible thing that you could do in a book, but if anyone ever has questions about things they may want to do in the Economic system feel free to PM me, or talk to me at an event.

I hope this helps a little.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:28 pm
by Marcus
The problem is the balance of how much you can accomplish behind the scenes versus in-game. Took me two event worth of research just to find a cost for tools and knowledge for a holding, because I wasn't told that I did it in the right order/left out a step until after the first research request, so I had to do it all over again with a second research request, meaning the first was completely wasted and it took half a year just to find out what I had to invest into the economic system. So three events just to be able to purchase tools at all.

Then I see other players completely circumnavigate the whole system just with smooth talking and throwing in-game money around. The economic system seem like there is tons of different ways to do the same thing, but it's only possible to know half of those ways at once.

Maybe it's just me. I have had so many instances over the years where GMs screwed up their face (or chuckle) at me like the question I asked was dumb, that I am gun-shy to think out of the box.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:42 pm
by GM-Phil
Just to be clear, no one has "Circumnavigated" the system, they merely navigated it differently. The system has been set up very specifically to allow multiple ways to accomplish almost anything in it. Many of these are listed in the Heroes and Villians expansion book, but as I said previously there is no way to list every possible way as some people do find interesting ways to do things with Magic items or skills.

I am sorry you feel that you are chuckled at. I know in my case I can get frustrated when people (not just you) tell me they feel they cannot do something or do not know how to do something when a list of such things exists in a rulebook. But I will still answer any questions asked as best I can.

Taki has been working with me on creating an Economic primer for players, as well as finding ways to write it clearer in the future.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:29 pm
by ollie
Can someone tell me why the wealth bonuses are broken because so far the only way to make obsurd amounts of coin is to specialize in it (Just like stacking levels of scout, or knockout, etc)?

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:57 pm
by Abaddon
Because you got them with out having to give anything. Every skill or perk should require a choice. If you want them you can trade what ever perks you got.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:26 pm
by Marcus
Just like stacking levels of scout
Just to be snarky, I'm gonna argue that one as being bunk.......... :P

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:27 pm
by GM-Phil
Just to be clear, if the wealth level bonuses were broken then we would have just removed them entirely. Instead we just require a character to invest in them just like any other bonus - just like stacking level's of Scout, K.O, etc.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:37 pm
by ollie
Abaddon wrote:Because you got them with out having to give anything. Every skill or perk should require a choice. If you want them you can trade what ever perks you got.
So they were broken because everyone got something for nothing? :?
[snark]I get hero points, life points, and path specialties for nothing too. Is that gonna change?[/snark]
Marcus wrote:
Just like stacking levels of scout
Just to be snarky, I'm gonna argue that one as being bunk.......... :P
Okay, not the best example, but it was the first to come to mind. :P
Aidan_Mcpryde wrote:Just to be clear, if the wealth level bonuses were broken then we would have just removed them entirely. Instead we just require a character to invest in them just like any other bonus - just like stacking level's of Scout, K.O, etc.
I was just trying to get legitimate answers from the nay sayers, that have said it was broken, of the wealth bonuses because I obviously feel they were fine as is and I really can't fathom the reason behind the change when it was something everybody got in the first place.

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:36 pm
by Kiel Reid
Allow me to retort with this...

There should be no multipliers. There should be no coin at game on. Get rid of it. It's a logistics pain and it inflates the value of in game coin. With the current changes the need for coin on a character basis is unnecessary.

Its not just x3 and x4. Currently this mechanic brings probably close to 20-30 gold into the game. Why? There is no need for upkeep anymore. Did you spend skill points to get it? You have allegiance? Replace that skill with something similar to merchant level 1.

Now take that money and free time. You can now run plots with more rewards for people who do stuff. Yay!

Re: Updates and changes for 2014

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:20 pm
by Ark
agrees with the above.

this also makes the political disciplines better as well as skills that grant a little bit of coin or resources.