This is from Brian I moved it since it is discussing the merits and dissads to restraints which is against the spirit of the rules post but definity a good discussion.
"To "restrain" somone that has been feared or taunted in order to prevent them from running off requires the players to engage in physical contact. I am not certain, but I belive that physical contact during combat is prohibited under FH rules as it is in every LARP i have participated in. The reasons no contact is a LARP standard I think are pretty obvious and well grounded.
Under different rules systems, Myself and those I played with used the abilities in game to effect the restraint of a PC that is desired when a player arm locks his recently taunted companion. Root, Press (with the addition of "to the ground" added, as I think stating back/right or left/to the ground is not unreasonable nor exploitive when using the press skil to direct where trhe press PC is shoved to), Sleep, Stun Strike, Nerve Pinch, touch of death and possible others I missed; are all in game methods to detain a feared PC and, as all are types of attacks, would work to break the taunt effect.
If the PCs surrounding the Taunted PC do not have access to these, they are just out of luck. Since taunt is intended to drag off individuals from where they stand, fight, or whom or what they are attacking; allowing players to ignore the contact rule to prevent a PC from being taunted makes the Taunt skill pointless.'
Taunt
Moderator: Admin
Taunt
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
re
Well I agree with what Brian said.
Now that said..taunt is a first level skill there is no way on Gods green earth I will support a skill that kills another player.
Oh and yes it doesnt kill them now, but that is because people have not gotten stupid with it yet.
What will happen is taunt..follow me with my big shield out the door. THanks...now please ignore the other two people standing there. That's right hit me..ok now guy in back please backstab the taunted man. Ok taunt is broken so now he turns toward the theif...nope I retaunted..thats right hit me for 5 seconds while we do another 12 backstab to you. (repeat)
I loved the idea but frankly it is WAY WAY too powerful. In the battle with the wraiths our actions, though breaking the rules in hind site did even the skill out.
Brian is correct in that restraint is not a good enough solution. Therefore I will argue more harshly for either the removal of taunt or a total rework of the skill.
Chris
Now that said..taunt is a first level skill there is no way on Gods green earth I will support a skill that kills another player.
Oh and yes it doesnt kill them now, but that is because people have not gotten stupid with it yet.
What will happen is taunt..follow me with my big shield out the door. THanks...now please ignore the other two people standing there. That's right hit me..ok now guy in back please backstab the taunted man. Ok taunt is broken so now he turns toward the theif...nope I retaunted..thats right hit me for 5 seconds while we do another 12 backstab to you. (repeat)
I loved the idea but frankly it is WAY WAY too powerful. In the battle with the wraiths our actions, though breaking the rules in hind site did even the skill out.
Brian is correct in that restraint is not a good enough solution. Therefore I will argue more harshly for either the removal of taunt or a total rework of the skill.
Chris
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
Chris with the confusion we already had with the skill and all I complete agree it needs to be removed or completely overhauled for what it all does and all is just not clear and it's probably one of the if not the most over-powered first level ability out there.
-Julie
-Julie
Dead pirate betrayed by Corbyn...ah well least I made him do his own dirty work when he killed me.
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Sara Gordon
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Sara Gordon
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whereas i stand by my previous statement of "i think its crap"
i would like to state: i'm not trying to be a jerk. i just lately have felt like people try to McGyver the rules to suit themselves and their own needs instead of just playing the game.
And it angers me when things have to get taken out of game because people just don't agree with it, so they wont follow it.
i would like to state: i'm not trying to be a jerk. i just lately have felt like people try to McGyver the rules to suit themselves and their own needs instead of just playing the game.
And it angers me when things have to get taken out of game because people just don't agree with it, so they wont follow it.
I don't need this signature.
When three GMs and several long time players feel a skill is broken, it is usually because it is broken. Taunt is Broken. It's too powerful as it is written even for a 2nd level skill let alone a first. I agree that the physical contact was bad and against the letter of the safety rules. I dont think the players doing it were doing it to conciously break a rule. I think they followed the spirit of the story, their characters, and in-game moment. Believe me, we have all thought that Taunt is broken long before this past event. I believe, if we decide to stay with the skill, a more appropriate wording would be;
Level 1: Taunt
This skill makes the target attack the swashbuckler. The target must direct all offensive actions towards the swashbuckler until the target is struck by another character, the swashbuckler dies, or the swashbuckler using the skill leaves the line of sight of the target. If the target does not have a weapon they may chose to run away as if they were hit with a fear effect (though it is not resistable via resist fear). An affected target may drop their weapon if they so choose. To use this ability, you must hit the person with a weapon or packet and yell “taunt.” . When hit with a taunt, any skills the target is charging are disrupted. There is no armor restriction for this skill.
So, in the situation this weekend, the people hit with taunt could have dropped their weapons and cowered in the corner for 30 seconds instead of charging towards their death. Another solution would have been for the friends of the taunted character to hit him i.e *Slap* "snap out of it man". Another character could have pressed the affected player out of the door and thus out of line of sight of the caster.
Level 1: Taunt
This skill makes the target attack the swashbuckler. The target must direct all offensive actions towards the swashbuckler until the target is struck by another character, the swashbuckler dies, or the swashbuckler using the skill leaves the line of sight of the target. If the target does not have a weapon they may chose to run away as if they were hit with a fear effect (though it is not resistable via resist fear). An affected target may drop their weapon if they so choose. To use this ability, you must hit the person with a weapon or packet and yell “taunt.” . When hit with a taunt, any skills the target is charging are disrupted. There is no armor restriction for this skill.
So, in the situation this weekend, the people hit with taunt could have dropped their weapons and cowered in the corner for 30 seconds instead of charging towards their death. Another solution would have been for the friends of the taunted character to hit him i.e *Slap* "snap out of it man". Another character could have pressed the affected player out of the door and thus out of line of sight of the caster.
Wayne O
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
The Game Master Lite
Frag the weak, Hurdle the dead!
I completely agree that the players were not breaking a rule just because they felt like it or thought it was a bad rule. I fully agree they were acting as thier PCs really would have if they weren't ficticious, and were acting in character with thier decisions and actions.
It was simply my intention to reply to Erics question about restraining a taunted PC. My response was written because the method used on Friday to prevent PCs from running off because of fear and taunt effects broke a rule I feel is very important to enforce to prevent unintentional injury to players, and to suggest other methods that are already available in the rules to accomplish the restraint of a feared or taunted PC without grabbing them.
I have in other games, where you could give permission to those you trusted to engage in full physical contact, done so because it followed the feel of the moment, provided great moments of humor (like the time a 135 pound friend, playing an animalistic powerful undead ran up behind me and jumped on my back and started hitting me in the noggin for big damage so I lept slightly ioff the ground and intentionaly landed on my back...short fight), made for great drama. I just didnt want it to become the standard method of defeating the skill and cause somone to get hurt.
It was simply my intention to reply to Erics question about restraining a taunted PC. My response was written because the method used on Friday to prevent PCs from running off because of fear and taunt effects broke a rule I feel is very important to enforce to prevent unintentional injury to players, and to suggest other methods that are already available in the rules to accomplish the restraint of a feared or taunted PC without grabbing them.
I have in other games, where you could give permission to those you trusted to engage in full physical contact, done so because it followed the feel of the moment, provided great moments of humor (like the time a 135 pound friend, playing an animalistic powerful undead ran up behind me and jumped on my back and started hitting me in the noggin for big damage so I lept slightly ioff the ground and intentionaly landed on my back...short fight), made for great drama. I just didnt want it to become the standard method of defeating the skill and cause somone to get hurt.
Grand High Chancellor of ROBUST UNPLEASANTNESS
...and the 11th commandment is:
"The stupid shall be punished!"
...and the 11th commandment is:
"The stupid shall be punished!"
Taunt
I will admit I broke to safety rule of no physical contact. In heat of the moment and not wanting to see my friends hurt or killed I insticvely grabed the taunted person until someone could knock them out and awaken them. As Wayne said, it wasn't we where trying to break the rules, it was just instict and lack of sleep (5:00 in the moring Grumble...., fighting in just my long john bottoms, grumble... being awaken out of a dead sleep grumble....) it was fun and very frighting. My bad about breaking the saftey rule, and i didn't realize it until this post.
Good job on the event evryone
Good job on the event evryone
My Thoughts
Aaron
Aaron
I have to say that since my plot was the one that made Nelkie fight in his undies in a rooom at 5 am in 40 degree weather I feel I have offically won Final haven...Id like my trophy please!
Last edited by Wyrmwrath on Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grand High Chancellor of ROBUST UNPLEASANTNESS
...and the 11th commandment is:
"The stupid shall be punished!"
...and the 11th commandment is:
"The stupid shall be punished!"
If you have one Finalhaven how many Finalhavens do the rest of us have?Wyrmwrath wrote:I have to say that since my plot was the one that made Nelkie fight in his undies in a rooom at 5 am in 40 degree weather I feel I have offically one Final haven...Id like my trophy please!
Ignorance can be fixed...stupid you're stuck with
RE
I want taunt to just disrupt people.
If taunt was in the game as is then I would add to waynes description something like: The person who does the taunting must stay enguaged if you run away then you break the taunt.
I dont like the line of sight thing. I mean sand and fight me if your going to mock me, if you run away then heck I just won.
Chris
If taunt was in the game as is then I would add to waynes description something like: The person who does the taunting must stay enguaged if you run away then you break the taunt.
I dont like the line of sight thing. I mean sand and fight me if your going to mock me, if you run away then heck I just won.
Chris
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
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Claude du Sinjin
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- Location: Cocytus
I have to admit, even if taunt is changed so its only effect is to disrupt or dispel any charged skill.... that's awesome!!!
An assassin is sneaking up behind a friend, preparing to BS them... TAUNT!! Bam!! No more backstab!
An arcane prepares to blow away your helpless King with a massive 30 boom... TAUNT!!! No more magic!!
A pikeman you don't like sizes up a bear and prepares to impale it upon his weapon... TAUNT!! He turns to you after loosing his concetration and swears! The bear then eats him!!
Yeah, I like that idea! Roll with it!
An assassin is sneaking up behind a friend, preparing to BS them... TAUNT!! Bam!! No more backstab!
An arcane prepares to blow away your helpless King with a massive 30 boom... TAUNT!!! No more magic!!
A pikeman you don't like sizes up a bear and prepares to impale it upon his weapon... TAUNT!! He turns to you after loosing his concetration and swears! The bear then eats him!!
Yeah, I like that idea! Roll with it!
Oui, this gets into a world of pain for this skill. I say leave it as is but make it a concentration skill for the person hit with the taunt (akin to a chraged boom). Thus _any_ contact will break the taunt.
I taunt Bob, Bob's buddy taps him with a weapon, taunt is broken.
I taunt Bob, Bob is alone, he chases me, my buddies kill him. (he's too focused on my insults to realize the real threat is behind him, as in a blind rage) However, Bob suddenly becomes a genius and realizes he's alone, and thus drops his weapon and runs away.
I taunt Bob, Bob's buddy taps him with a weapon, taunt is broken.
I taunt Bob, Bob is alone, he chases me, my buddies kill him. (he's too focused on my insults to realize the real threat is behind him, as in a blind rage) However, Bob suddenly becomes a genius and realizes he's alone, and thus drops his weapon and runs away.