Racial Disciplines

[dier_cire]

While I whole heartedly agree, good luck with that idea... It's been shot down at least three times already.

[Rhul]

They gain access to an additional life point, as well as access to Disciplines that each have at least one unique power to them that no one else has access to.

Actually, only the 2LP races -Orc, Gav'in, Tsunataur, Dwarf(?), with the exception of Beastman, get access to Vigor, and that's after losing 1 or their base LP to be back down to 1LP- what everyone else is at.

The only reason Rhul has the 'Beastman' discipline rather than Brawler like he had before, is so I can have slightly longer fists to represent his long ape arms. Everything else in Beastman is effectively an analog of what I already had access to as a Druid/Brawler. [/quote]

[Rhul]

They gain access to an additional life point, as well as access to Disciplines that each have at least one unique power to them that no one else has access to.

Actually, only the 2LP races -Orc, Gav'in, Tsunataur, Dwarf(?), with the exception of Beastman, get access to Vigor, and that's after losing 1 or their base LP to be back down to 1LP- what everyone else is at.

The only reason Rhul has the 'Beastman' discipline rather than Brawler like he had before, is so I can have slightly longer fists to represent his long ape arms. Everything else in Beastman is effectively an analog of what I already had access to as a Druid/Brawler.

[Morgan]

They gain access to an additional life point

This life point comes from costuming the race. Humans cannot get it. Hence, they gain access to a free 'Vigor'.

[Dallid]

That extra LP comes at the cost of additional required costuming - I'd consider that balanced.

[Morgan]

I'll agree, but they also get access to (essentially) a hidden discipline, each of which have at least one awesome skill, and some that have multiple.

Now, I'm not arguing that humans should get something extra, I'm just saying that the costumed races are getting a lot of mechanical benefit for their time and effort, where humans do not.

[Rhul]

But on the flip side, I have to put on and wear incredibly hot costuming as Rhul (not to mention putting in contact lenses if I don't sleep in them), but on the flipside I can play Garritt at Winterhaven just by waking up in the morning as normal.

While the heat-factor of the costume is something I willingly pay for looking cool, I figure the 1LP is enough benefit for not being able to wake up and fight at a moment's notice like alot of people can, because I don't (usually) sleep in any of my gear.

Also remember, the 1LP bonus used to automatically be there on races which needed costuming, but barely anyone was costuming their race at all. At least this makes people put in the extra effort. This is also where the LP bonus for 'midieval garb' came from (and it was several years before all these new rules), believe it or not, and it used to be 2LP up till this year, now it's just split into 1 for garb, 1 for armor.

So it's the same as it always was, just in a different-seeming format.

Rhul two year ago:
+1LP for race, +2LP for 'costuming/garb'. =3

Rhul now:
+1LP for racial costuming. +1 for garb. +1 for 'realistic armor'. =3

[Daffyd]

But on the flip side, I have to put on and wear incredibly hot costuming as Rhul (not to mention putting in contact lenses if I don't sleep in them), but on the flipside I can play Garritt at Winterhaven just by waking up in the morning as normal.

While the heat-factor of the costume is something I willingly pay for looking cool, I figure the 1LP is enough benefit for not being able to wake up and fight at a moment's notice like alot of people can, because I don't (usually) sleep in any of my gear.

Also remember, the 1LP bonus used to automatically be there on races which needed costuming, but barely anyone was costuming their race at all. At least this makes people put in the extra effort. This is also where the LP bonus for 'midieval garb' came from (and it was several years before all these new rules), believe it or not, and it used to be 2LP up till this year, now it's just split into 1 for garb, 1 for armor.

So it's the same as it always was, just in a different-seeming format.

Rhul two year ago:
+1LP for race, +2LP for 'costuming/garb'. =3

Rhul now:
+1LP for racial costuming. +1 for garb. +1 for 'realistic armor'. =3

I would counter with:

You do not have to put on all the costuming to play Rhul, you chose to play Rhul as a Beastman and you chose wear that costuming.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud the effort you put into the character and that makes my experience that much more enjoyable.

But there is a mechanical advantage for playing a race that has a costuming requirement, where there is not one for playing a human (who, arguably could have more costuming than even Rhul if the play so chose there to be).

[Atrum Draconus]

But on the flip side, I have to put on and wear incredibly hot costuming

Leather pants, leather chaps a velvet shirt and a leather coat all black... No matter how much water I drink I lose about 6-7 lbs of water weight in a weekend. I'll take a pair of ears, or some face paint over that any day and twice on Sunday.

Because you put a pair of ears on you get a mechanical advantage with a discipline that has special skills? Sorry, no matter how you cut it, that don't add up.

[Daffyd]

I do have to agree that the Peasant Hero discipline is almost a perfect fit as the Human Racial Discipline.

I have a thought. What if the mechanical advantage came not in the form of an access to a Discipline, but instead in the form of the Racial Boon. Then you could make the Discipline available to the specific race, but to get the Boon would require appropriate costuming?

[Torakhan]

I have a thought. What if the mechanical advantage came not in the form of an access to a Discipline, but instead in the form of the Racial Boon. Then you could make the Discipline available to the specific race, but to get the Boon would require appropriate costuming?

I'm just making sure that I'm understanding your suggestion: You are suggesting we go back to the way it was with race specific boons (where they were only given if folks were doing proper costuming), but also give the new race specific disciplines, even if someone doesn't costume the race?

[Kalphoenix]

Currently, under the new rules, I feel that humans are penalized, period, and I think it stinks. In fact, I think it stinks SO much, that despite the several "human enough" characters that I play, I can't bring myself to really play a truly human character (at least mechanically) again as long as these rules are as is.

The racial costuming excuse for non-humans is bull. Yes, it's possible there may be a few people who play human characters strictly because it doesn't require racial "makeup," but I think most people just play what they want to play and go from there.

Don't give me the "world outlook" reason either. In the world post-cataclysm humans are NOT somehow magically better off than the non-humans. It might have been an acceptable excuse CARPS era, but not now.

Since I didn't see my thought to let a human character pick any discipline as a racial discipline (probably the most balanced idea) get much discussion, my other suggestion would be to allow humans to have two essence boons, and if you didn't want them to pick both of them, give them BACK the human diplomacy one and let them pick an additional one. With how uber the racial disciplines are, I don't see this as a vastly unbalancing alteration.

My suggestion regarding the "racial costuming bonus" that is currently unavailable to humans is to allow the bonus if the character is believably representing a certain origin/nationality (and, of course, give people some examples to build off of), or for characters (Like Francesco) who are portraying an older character, or one with some other kind of physical alteration (a large visible scar or marking, a disability, etc) that is being represented.

But I don't know as if I really feel that "being human is reward enough" is a reasonable outlook on this subject.

[Morgan]

But I don't know as if I really feel that "being human is reward enough" is a reasonable outlook on this subject.

Bravo. My sentiments exactly.

[Rhul]

Atrum: Leather pants, leather chaps a velvet shirt and a leather coat all black... No matter how much water I drink I lose about 6-7 lbs of water weight in a weekend. I'll take a pair of ears, or some face paint over that any day and twice on Sunday.

Yeah? In describing Atrum, you just exactly described my character Garritt Shaw at WinterHaven. Who's only mechanical and physical change with the new rules was Advanced Sense Magic.

I've been wearing pointed ears for two years with no advantage of any kind for doing so (because he's just an 'altered human', so just counted as a 'half-elf' with the human boon). Now I get a single LP bonus. Meanwhile, many 'elves' were not even wearing ears at all but getting the boon, so blame them, I guess. Personally, I was just fine with things the way they were before with races, anyways. The boons never really mattered to me, I even dropped the old 'human boon' for resist disease, because it makes more roleplaying sense for Garritt.

Daffyd: I would counter with:

You do not have to put on all the costuming to play Rhul, you chose to play Rhul as a Beastman and you chose wear that costuming.

And I wholeheartedly admitted that that's my choice. Hell, as a Guthrie, I always grow a beard for two weeks just to shave it into a convincing set of muttonshop sideburns.


I always have upheld that even with the minimum of face paint (like an Orc, beastman, dwarf, or Gav'in, if I want to 'look' like my character in the morning, it will usually take more work than a 'human'. Like I said before, don't blame the guys that do, blame the ones that didn;t. Otherwise the only other solution is to go back to the old way and police it better (or at all).


As for the access to racial disciplines, believe me, I wear more costuming than (most) of the 'other races' that are being currently played, but they ALL have immediate access to much cooler (and mechanically better) racial disciplines than I do as a beastman. Meh, whatever. I got over it.

[Daffyd]

I always have upheld that even with the minimum of face paint (like an Orc, beastman, dwarf, or Gav'in, if I want to 'look' like my character in the morning, it will usually take more work than a 'human'. Like I said before, don't blame the guys that do, blame the ones that didn;t . Otherwise the only other solution is to go back to the old way and police it better (or at all).

I agree with this sentiment, but instead of confronting those that didn't take the effort they instead implemented something that rewards those that did. Basically they tried to subtract by adding. Always a bad thing.