Fists

Onimaster · Post by **Onimaster** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:51 pm

I would say that an accidental bump with body or sheild would NOT be a proper strike as defined by the rules.

Remember, your characters are way less clumbsy than we are... at least in theory. Mike and Partello may be dead on.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:18 pm

Just FYI, Brawlers can block too

Brawler—Common, Savage
Level 1: Ambidexterity
Level 2: Iron Fists.
Level 3: Improved Combat Reflexes
Level 4: Knockout Blow

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:22 pm

You are right on the accidental bump. It must be intentional. That was corrected vocally some time ago. I think the current description of disruption gets that point across ok, but may need a bit of word smithing.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:49 pm

I like the fist doing zero damage with hero points and rage increasing the damage.

And I also agree with accdential bump. I hated that as an emapth.

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:34 pm

An accidental bump SHOULDN'T do anything. The rulebook clearly says "the target of an aggressive action."

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:44 am

Can you please point out where in the book it say's agressive action. I looked for that, and could not find that.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:15 am

In the italicized section of Charge up skills: "Because of the needed concentration, being struck while charging or prior to using the skill causes the skill to be lost and the charge-up time to reset."

Struck is the soft way of saying aggressive action. I don't like either term but the point is there, even if it is somewhat vague.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:39 am

Agreed. Does anyone have an idea how to word smith. I know I don't have the skill to do so.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:39 am

Can the people that don't want 1 single fist to do 1 explain why not? I just don't see why it wouldn't.

BOO HISSS!!!
Sneaky people sometimes just poke people or touch their arms or shoulders to keep people from charging up stuff. I guess I'll just have to go back to constantly carrying a fist phys rep around, which was the suck.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:48 am

You yourself were against it last time.

Yes people have died from being beaten by fists, but it's about as likely to happen as falling off a bar stool and dying. I'm speaking from experience here, not supposition. Spending alot of time as a youth and teenager in Detroit and being a bouncer in a bar has given me alot of actual experience with multiple people punching and kicking one person repeatedly.

The thing I keep coming back to is that there is a way to do damage with your fists already in the game, it only costs 20 points and is open to anyone that is common. And everyone in the game does have a way to do 1 damage with any weapon other than a fist. There is no defiency in the rules, only a "want to do the adventurous dramatic, and probably suicidal, thing and have at with fists alone" (not my words).

Your words, not mine

As for purposefully touching someone, I'm still for that counting as disruption.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:52 am

I guess the sneaky person would have to hit a charging person with said fist or a dagger, not calling damage, but still an obivous attack.

I see your point though, but I found it very irritating a small bump would break my charge. I can understand a wack or hit, but not a touch or small push.

As for a fist, why should a untrained person with a fist do as much damage as longsword?
With using rage, hero point, skills with a fist, it shows you know what you are doing or you are just really strong.
With out some training, you are liable to hurt your self instead of hurting the other person.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:55 am

Again, my hangup is this: I am a hero. I am tough. I live in these tough times fighting for the weak, the feeble, the soft because I am strong, I am tough, I am a hero. I punch you and I do one damage because I am tough and strong and a hero. Now I pick up my sword and swing it with all my might and I do one damage because my super sharp blade can do no more than my super strong punch...

I don't know, that just seems dumb to me. If it is just me, I guess I can get past it.

NewGuy · Post by **NewGuy** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:56 am

Peace420 wrote:Can the people that don't want 1 single fist to do 1 explain why not? I just don't see why it wouldn't.

For an UNTRAINED fighter to punch you hard enough to inflict damage equal to taking a sword or ax (or maul, etc.) blow, they would likely shatter the bones in their hand/wrist. I'd tape a fist vis-rep to my shoulder, you disarm me, and I continue swinging without hesitation. "1 fist" lacks n exclusion for having a weapon in the other hand, thus everyone now duel-wields a dagger off hand (essentially). It robs monks and brawlers of a key feature.

Andian · Post by **Andian** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:35 am

Here's a suggestion. "1 fist" as cumbersome as it sounds could be used. Say, if a person has armor of any sort, it does no damage. Yet a person with out any 'armor' points left would be effected by the untrained fists damage. It would be use only one handed and without being able to use a weapon or shield in the other hand. Meaning the character is concentrating everything they have into trying to do damage with their one hand. This would make it so the untrained person wouldn't be completely defenseless. Though unable to do anything against a person with combat reflexes or intact armor. It would also mean that a person who is untrained and rages would do "2 fist" and possibly do more damage, but not be able to do effectively more damage than a sword unless the person has no armor. It would add a rule *which we don't need more calls added* and would be quite cumbersome as I've explained before. So, I don't even like it. But it's a thought.

Edit: eeeeew.....fist...I'd have to change the name of that. Perhaps "hand"

Edit: Something that might even make it more cumbersome. The number could be vs. armor points, as knockout is. And no matter the number, the damage output would be 1.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:51 am

Ried, I changed my mind on it because it doesn't seem logical that you couldn't do any damage. Call me Romney.

It doesn't rob anyone of anything, you can't dual wield unless you have a skill that allows it.
An untrained person with a maul is actually far less dangerous than an untrained person simply punching. The untrained person with a maul will only hurt you if they get lucky or you can't see them while they flail it back and swing it wildly at you.

You get disarmed you pull out another weapon, whats the difference if it's a physt?

Mike I agree that some of the damage stuff doen't seem right, but thats a part of the game. A dagger does the same as a 2 handed sword which does the same as a staff in untrained hands? That seems dumb too, but it's a limitation of the game.

That said, it really doesn't make much of a difference to me. I just wanted to see why not.
I can definitely be good with 0 and having to have a skill to do more.