Rule Thoughts

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:23 pm

For the record, any spell that gives a PC the ability to anonymously and irresistably cripple another character is both broken and dumb.

As the spell is currently (and publicly) written, I agree. It is overpowered for an Advanced ability. If the spell was resistible possibly with Resist Magic (a 4th Level discipline ability) or it were possible to investigate the source and track the caster down, possibly with Greater Sense Magic (an ability of equal level) or even if another Wizard with access to the spell could counteract the power (albeit at the same cost) I believe it would balance out the power.

From another standpoint, Curse/Remove Curse appears to be a logistical nightmare. It requires a member of the staff to track down the victim immediately in order to maintain a level playing field. I would hate to cast the spell on someone only for them to discover their misfortune hours after I paid the cost.

I honestly think that the ability is an awesome idea. Balance issues aside, it allows for some incredible role play. Unfortunately, I also believe it detracts more from the game than it adds.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:06 am

This is great. Rules are being discussed. Keep it coming.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:15 pm

as someone who used curse i do belive its overpowered, not broken, i reserve broken for something that actually is.

Curse is the best pre-emptive kill somebody skill ever. as long as you know the GM/NPC told them and they play it right. nothing like going to kill someone you know you have an advantage over.

i think it should be magic, and therefore be resistable via magic. i dont think it would nerfe the skill at all.

if an NPC character uses curse (

) i think you should be able to use skills to track them down, however i dont think you should be able to track down another player with skills, as it would be just too problematic.

it should cost 2 life points, that cannot be healed until the curse is removed. and should last until its removed or until the end of the event.

i do however like curse, as it gives people an anonymous way to voice how they feel about people, if you find yourself being cursed alot, your probobly doing something wrong. everyone is so used to meatgaming and knowing exactly who did what to who that its nice to see a skill that says "NO, you dont know who did this, but they dont like you!"

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:10 am

actually since the use of curse has to go through NPC camp it would be less of an issue to track them than say scout. (which you could thios year.) this is because GM staff doesn't allways actually know what pcs are doing to each other.

Greater sense magic is the exact tool that should track this.

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:02 am

I agree that Greater Sense Magic should be able to track this as well. It put's a good balance on this spell.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:17 pm

reserved for my comment after i sleep, going on 30 hour sleep deprivation right now

2 hours later

screw it im posting, sorry for the errors if there are any

i have a problem with being able to just go track them down because one of the main selling points of this spell is its the ONLY skill in the game that is anonymous. disguise, metagamed. slept them before they saw you, metagamed. i think thats a problem for most people, not knowing everything

also, certain skills cant really be used against other PC's, cant scout them, recall on them, etc. i dont think you should just be able to go "bam, it was this person in the kitchen with a gun" lame.

however, i do like the idea of adding a solve the crime element to this. perhaps as long as you have a curse cast you will sense as magic, and if disenchanted the curse will go inactive for a set amount of time.

so you dont just get "it was this person" but you have to ge be a ditective.

Post by **GM-Taki** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:17 am

I'd be fine with scrapping the whole thing, but if it's going to stay, it needs to be reworked. I've seen way too many things that were magical-but-not-magic come into game.

The presence of the curse on the victim should be able to be detected by sense magic.

Greater sense magic should be useful in tracking down the identity of the curse, but not directly reveal the identity of the caster. Perhaps using greater sense magic could exclude someone. For example, Bob gets cursed and suspects Bill. Bob has Tom confirm that he is cursed with sense magic. Tom also suspects Bill, and having sensed the curse on Bob uses greater sense magic on Bill. If Bill is guilty, Tom will sense that he is the one who cursed Bob.

It should be resistible though resist magic. If resisted, the caster suffers no penalty and all the target knows is that they resisted some magic - not what or from whom.

Disenchant should remove it completely. It is magic, and that's what disenchant does.

Even adjusted to these specifications it's still "the best preemptive kill somebody skill ever" for those who can't resist magic - and that's still a problem. Creating anonymous skills is not a workable solution to post-kill meta-gaming. If the players in-game are too immature to deal with PVP in a responsible way, how the hell does a skill like this help? It just gives people who want to shit on someone else a way to do so without tangible consequences.

This skill is broken because it contributes to one of the worst sensations a PC can experience in-game: complete powerlessness. Not only is it another example of magic-that-is-not-magic, it rewards passive-aggressive douchebaggery. I understand the fun some people get with screwing with other people, but if you're not clever or stealthy enough to do it without getting caught the system doesn't need to help you.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:32 am

im going to say while that i agree with almost everything on the above post there is one point i would like to disagree with.

disenchant should not cure curse, the person spent a bit of time, life, went and got a busy NPC to tell the player and bam, 15 seconds later there fine.
if there is a way to get rid of it fine, but it should take some time.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:13 am

Clarification:
this year you could use scout, necropsy, sage hints and the like on PCs. They don't give you a name, only vague information.

Rhul · Post by **Rhul** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:05 am

I quite frankly don't care about using Curse on PC's. Because yeah, an irresistible effect that doesn't take line of sight and range to target into consideration is absolutely dumb. Also, everything else Taki just said.

What I AM interested in is clearing up how curse can be used against NPC targets. A cave battle suddenly gets alot more interesting when a mage can suddenly curse the "end boss" for half his life points, thereby making the guy easier for his friends to kill/subdue.

So I say simply make curse a point-cast skill. Takes ten minutes to cast, and the caster can be interrupted up till the point of the curse "leaving his fingers". But then the caster calls a game-stop, and the curse can be used on any target within line-of-sight of the caster.

You can't really make skills "only useable on NPC's" in this game, but I figure the balance is that the PC you are hitting with a point-casted curse knows EXACTLY who just did it to them, and they and their friends can take immediate action.

Also, my reasoning for making the spell a point-cast versus the "Go to GM camp" version is to take out the horrible stupid logistics involved. First: it doesn't then require an NPC to be tied up just to deliver the friggin' information to the target player, and second, and most importantly: How, in a roleplaying game, is an in-game spell any fun for the caster at all when it has to be delivered out-of-game?!

Sure, a big bad NPC can suddenly be half as strong (or because the PC's don't know his stats, they will never even notice that he is half as strong), but how is that fun for the caster? He has a skill that will almost never get any notice. But with an in-game directedspell, he can suddenly look 'cool' when he heroically weakens the big, cocky bad guy in front of all his companions.

Rhul · Post by **Rhul** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:24 am

This would be my new version of curse:

Type: Rite

Time to Cast: 10 minutes, after which the spell may be cast at any time the caster decides (counts as an active skill). While a curse is being "held" the caster can be disrupted as normal, and must re-cast the spell.

Special Instruction: Upon casting, the mage must call a "Game Stop", and then may designate any character within his line of sight as the target of the curse. Then they must describe the type of curse they are inflicting from the list below:

Cost: Immediately upon casting, -1LP from the caster that may not be healed until one of the following: the end of the event, the lifting of the curse, or the cursed target's death. A mage may only lift their own curse(es).

Curses

-Fatigue Curse: The target loses half their LP, rounded down.

-Weariness curse: The target loses all of their combat reflexes (if any).

-Consumption curse: The target of this skill must now spend twice the number of LP to activate any life point based skills. All skill charge times are also doubled. (An advanced focus item is required to cast this curse.)

This would take all OOG logistical and emotional problems from the skill, as far as I see. It makes it a big bang that happens entirely in-game, so give the caster a bit of an ego-boost (which, lets face it, is an important part of character skills).

You can now 'hold' it, thereby making it a cool 'knee-jerk' spell to lead off with in a big fight, or to defend yourself with, at the cost that you can't use any other skills until it is cast.

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:35 pm

^ That, if it is going to stay ^

I don't think it should be able to be applied anonymously and to add, the effects for both the victim and caster end at the end of the event with no carryover between games.

I also believe the mage should only be able to curse one person at a time, and can only remove the curse if within line of sight of the victim (same as applying it), thereby making curse more limited, and making usage of it more prone to careful thought, since if they curse someone and the person escapes, they can't use it again that event until the person is found.

Rhul · Post by **Rhul** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:21 pm

I would just like it to be a spell that makes for fun teamwork, rather than just hurting other characters out of spite. For example, cursing an enemy arcane in the backfield of a battle with the Consumption curse, to get him off your friends' backs while they fight.

since if they curse someone and the person escapes, they can't use it again that event until the person is found.

The current version implies (and my version expressly describes) that a Mage can lift a curse at any time after casting. So you wouldn't be stuck if the guy got away, just lift the curse off them.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:08 pm

I do like cjs idea. Adds a debuff to the game.

Rhul · Post by **Rhul** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:25 am

Whee....Travis validated me!

But seriously.

Here's another.

When does the effect of a counter-spell take, er....effect?

Because being able to choose exactly when would totally rock. Make it so the caster has to actually be 'in' the area of effect to use counter-spell on anything, and then they can do the following for the 1LP cost:

-Negate the entire spell-call on everyone involved.

-Negate the effects on themselves, leave everyone else to rot. Because my new Arcane would never do that.....

-If the spell is a directed one, everyone behind the Arcane (including the arcane) is unaffected.

The last came from an idea of mine. Imagine a group of monsters barrelling down on a hapless PC....who is entirely there for bait. Because then the hidden arcane casts Attack of the Elements into the rear of the monster horde, and the "bait" casts counter-spell just when it would go on to hurt him, which it then obviously does not.

Also........can I still use the arcane Enchant Weapon to Enchant an NPC's weapon and then get someone to disarm him so it shatters? Or maybe make the big evil NPC's high-profile "Sword O' Doom (and also Killing Newbies)" explode no matter what, even if he kills a bunch of people and escapes, because that still ends the scene, so I get the last laugh?