Racial Disciplines

Post by **Zydana** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:14 pm

Rhul wrote: but barely anyone was costuming their race at all.

A few years back the WH crew tried to fix that problem with this..

http://www.winterhavenlarp.com/phpbb3/v ... cial#p6430

Frankly, I'm very confused as to why the racial boons were changed to be available to any race. I was informed that it would prevent the min/max people from wearing crappy costuming to get the boons they wanted. But then racial disciplines were added... which would cause people who wanted to min/max with a racial discipline to still wear crappy costuming.

Disclaimer: No, I'm not saying everyone who plays a non-human race is wearing crappy costuming, nor people who wish to play a race for the love of the race, or the min/max'ers all wear crappy racial costuming. I'm saying the people who are going to wear the minimum amount required or do a poor job at their costuming to get something whether it be a racial boon or racial discipline or extra life points are going to continue. I just don't see how the changes made 'fixes' the problem.

... or did I miss something?

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:25 pm

.......

new boon system
- i like it, players can take any boon they want that fits there particular play style, character background, or whatever.

races WITHOUT disciplines
- i like it, players can be whatever race they want that fits there character or playstyle, 1 life is not that much of a bonus or incentive to play a non human

the whole concept of race SPECIFIC boons, and now disciplines
- *sigh* when you give one specific race something that only it has, your going to get people that want to play for just that power, and in tern, not really care about the way they look, as there not playing an orc for the sake of being an orc, so they dont care.

random thoughts

-buy disguise, be your non human for the discipline, but disguise yourself as a human, this costs points and restricts you to common or privliged

-allow half breeds, cross a human and an orc, you look human so only get 1 race life, but get access to the discipline

the first one can already be done, thoughts on the second?

Post by **Zydana** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:43 pm

Ark wrote: -allow half breeds, cross a human and an orc, you look human so only get 1 race life, but get access to the discipline

From the 2010 rule book

Some players also desire to play half-breeds, which is also acceptable requiring again a valid and creative reason and GM approval. Costuming and make-up should reflect the fact that you are of two species. To emphasize, both half-breeds and sub-races are dependent upon GM approval.

First off, a half-breed would not look human. They would look like both. You need a good reason, make up to reflect both races, AND GM approval. I would assume, that if you're creative enough, and have a VERY good reason as to why you're half human AND have a non-human discipline, there may be a very slim chance that you may get GM approval. I would NOT expect that to be the normal circumstances at all.

Besides, if what you suggest worked, you might as well allow humans to pick whatever racial discipline they wanted.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:04 pm

First, we're working on a set of standards and pictures that will detail expectations for racial costuming. These expectations would need to be met in order for you to be that race so that will address the crappy costuming to get these uber powerful game breaking disciplines that we created.

Second, let me lead the discussion away from the why of it all and focus in on this concept of these uber powerful game breaking disciplines. I would especially like to hear from those people who use this type of terminology to describe them. Which specific skills/disciplines are you referring to and why? Power of the Stars I keep hearing is too powerful. What else? Incidentally, I disagree with Power of the Stars. All it does is speed the game up a little, which I don't consider either uber or game breaking but rather welcomed.

I'm asking because of all the skills that we questioned after the event, I don't believe any of them were racial disciplines, unless I'm forgetting, so here's your chance to jog my memory.

Post by **Zydana** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:18 pm

Mike.. about the standards that are being put in...

W00T!!

As for the rest of your post, I really can't say yet. Do I think we needed the racial disciplines? Defiantly not. Do I think any of them are super uber or horribly ground breaking? I don't know. I haven't spent enough time watching them in practice. ..And I don't know if we will really know until maybe the end of this year or maybe the next. Guess it depends on when/if someone catches something the rest of us don't or maybe one starts getting too over used. At that point, we may want to look at it.

I think the time is needed to observe for a bit.

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:26 pm

The issue with Power of the Stars (as it is currently written) is that three Valken' Vi can drop the times of some skills from 15 minutes to 2 seconds.

There are a few other things I saw, but I'm at work with no book currently. I'll post more later on.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:35 pm

to me the racial disciplines are not about leet skills. Sure there are unique skills, but each and every skill was designed to feel, more like the race to which it is assigned. The disciplines are more about adding much needed cultural flavor than uberskills.

DO some seem to do one thing really good? yes. that's the point.

Do i think humans need them? no. whether you know it or not, human add money into the economy behind the scenes due to positive loyalty points. That means its easier for humans to live, and exist.

If you are a human looking for an uber discipline, they already exist. Tribal protector, knight, or man at arms all out there for you to take. As a human the game revolves around you. Making a discipline to flesh out your race is pointless because humans are adaptable races who can learn what they want. They have less to define them culturally.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:26 pm

If humans still have the poltical bonus, than all is balanced and well. They should not get the extra life than. As for a disapline that is only for humans, not needed. It just adds more complication for very little benifit.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:28 pm

....everyone can get the political bonus now

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:43 pm

Is it free to the human or do they have to pay points for it? If it is free, than all is good. If it is not, than there is some issues.

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:47 pm

Humans only got more support points because of their boon, which anyone can now take.

Post by **Zydana** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:33 pm

What they did was instead of assigning one racial boon for each race, you pick your race and then pick your boon. You are no longer limited to the boon dependent on your race. It's now just part of the character creation process.. just like choosing if you are savage/common/privileged.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:51 pm

all correct. But that does not mean there are not numerical in game bonuses for playing a race. And that goes double for humans. Humans like working for humans, and there are alot of factions of humans.

something to consider anyway.

Daffyd · Post by **Daffyd** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:13 pm

cole45 wrote:all correct. But that does not mean there are not numerical in game bonuses for playing a race. And that goes double for humans. Humans like working for humans, and there are alot of factions of humans.

something to consider anyway.

But that's not a listed, defined game mechanic. That's entirely based on the world setting and the result of role-playing. Besides playing a dwarf has those same benefits when dealing with dwarves. As do Elves, Gavin, Orcs, pretty much every race gets that benefit.

Atrum Draconus · Post by **Atrum Draconus** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:38 pm

General Maximus wrote: It just adds more complication for very little benifit.

You do realize that EVERY one of the non-human disciplines falls into that same category right? They aren't needed, add complication and make people that play humans feel jipped. NONE of them were "needed", players could still take the boon that fit their race if they wanted to be true to the lore. You and Ried were the ones that convinced me when the "monster races" were being discussed that you CANNOT balance the rules with some hidden rp factor.

If you are a human looking for an uber discipline, they already exist. Tribal protector, knight, or man at arms all out there for you to take.

So can a person with a pairs of ears...

As a human the game revolves around you.

I think if most of the game were Ga'Vin the game would probably be very different and revolve more around Ga'Vin culture.

Making a discipline to flesh out your race is pointless because humans are adaptable races who can learn what they want. They have less to define them culturally.

So can you please explain to me how having non-human specific disciplines reflects this in ANY way? More adaptable does indeed define the human culture, if you want to be an arcane sneaky backstabbing dwarf with no honor you can do that, there are no hindrances to what you can do. I would counter that every race EXCEPT human is actually now more adaptable because they have every discipline a human can get and an extra discipline that is not allowed to humans with unique skills.