List of Suggested Rule Changes


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Post Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:23 pm

GM_Chris wrote:I am laughing a little inside.


Me too :lol:
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:37 am

I would like to hear from more players about the amount of points healed per chip draw. Does 1 sound ok? Maybe 2 or 3 or 5? I agree that 10 is too much but one sounds like too little.

Other than this one item, I think we have a good system hammered out for healing in negatives
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:33 am

In ONLY Surgery can be used below a certain number, then yeah, each chip will need to do more. Maybe 5.
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:12 pm

The problem with that Doug is that 3 surgons can work together so what happens is for a 10% chance of failure the healer can heal to -35 and then for like a 24% chance of failure can heal to -50

Why do you feel it needs to be 5? Is that because we as NPC's tend to hit the PC's for a lot of damage. Honeslty I rather tone down the damage.
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:31 pm

Here's the actual percentages (these are in total percent chance of death not for an individual pull):
Increasing the number of life per chip just multiplies the life obviously (you can figuer out the number of chips by subtracting 19 from any of the numbers).


single surgeon:
at 1 per chip and regular bags:
-20 = 90%, -24 = 50%, max recoverable = -28
at 1 per chip and 15 chip bag:
-20 = 93%, -26 = 53%, max recoverable = -33

double surgeons and regular bags:
-20 = 90%, -25 = 49%, max recoverable = -37
one regular, one 15 chip (uses single 15 bag first 5 draws):
-20 = 93%, -26 = 54%, -27 = 48%, max recoverable = -42
both 15 chip:
-20 = 93%, -28 = 49%, max recoverable = -47

Must get back to work, will do triple in a bit. And will edit this post. If someone want full data, I can post it all later.
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:42 pm

Well I do not think that is correct.

Drawing 1 chip means you have a 10% chance of death, but drawing 2 chips does not =20%.

Should it not be 10 pick 1, then 9 pick 1.

so it is 10% then 11% for a total of 1% chance of death.

When you get to 5 it is:

10% +11.1% +12.5% +14.3% +16.7%=55.6% chance of death. :)
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:25 pm

not total percent. You still have to factor the 90% from the previous draw, not the 10% (since you aren't testing for a red, but rather a white). Each draw is 10% then 11.1% then 12.5%, 14.3%, 16.7%, etc, but total is just number divided by number. (btw, in one example you use addition and the other multiplication)

well, technically total percent is calculated as:
draw 1:
1 in 10 of red = 90%
draw 2:
1 in 10 of red = 10%
+ 9 in 10 of white * 1 in 9 of red = 10%
= 20%
draw 3:
1 in 10 of red = 10%
+ 9 in 10 of white * 1 in 9 of red = 10%
+ 9 in 10 of white * 8 in 9 of white * 1 in 8 of red = 10%
= 30%
etc.

trust me on this. I already confused Mike with this. :)


just for fun on drawing 9 chips:
by the multiplying:
10% * 11.1% * 12.5% * 14.3% * 16.7% * 20% * 25% * 33% * 50% = 0.00003% of death.
by addition:
10% + ... + 50% = 193% chance of death.
do either of these look at all accurate?

edit: fixed the correct percentages
Last edited by dier_cire on Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:26 pm

Again, I would have to say that going with Wayne's idea.. and putting the chip draws at maybe a 2-1 ratio would be fine. It allows the healers to still be pretty heroic, brings down the power of alchemy slightly in this case.. And at least in all my experience of FH, it has never really been the putting someone down and not being able to heal them up beacause they ar too badly hurt that has been the problem.. It has been the "look i killed someone..(again).. and they are back to life in under an hour". Unless bad luck is running rampant it has generally been accepted that it is easier to let someone grieviously wounded die and ressurect them than to try to waste a lot fo potions and the like on saving them. Mind you this too is a rare occurence, it usually happens in large scale fights where you have limited healers and several wounded people.

All in all, at least in a PVP standpoint, i would look at perhaps making it a bit more difficult to bring someone back, and if you want to make it easier for healers to heal wounded people, that would be truly helpful for player vs. NPC fights. keeping the game relatively fun for everyone.
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:54 pm

Ok, here's the total percent chance of death for any situation. There is a bit of rounding done since it's only 1 decimal place so the last pull for the 3 healer draws with 15 chip bags is actually not 100% but more than 99.95...

Calculations are:
1 - (chips remaining/chip total) for single.
1 - (chips remaining/chip total*chips remaining/chip total) for double
1 - (chips remaining/chip total*chips remaining/chip total*chips remaining/chip total) for triple.
I didn't bother with parentheses inside since 9/10*9/10 = (9/10)*(9/10). You should all remember that from algebra. :) Also note, when dealing with split combos (ie a 10 bag and a 15 bag), chips are pulled from the 15 bag till it hits 9/15 to produce the best odds.

  Code:
Hlr = healer, 10# = 10 chip bag, 15# = 15 chip bag

         | 1 Hlr    1 Hlr    2 Hlr    2 Hlr    2 Hlr    3 Hlr    3 Hlr    3 Hlr    3 Hlr
         | 10#      15#      10#      1x15#    15#      10#      1x15#    2x15#    15#
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 chip   | 10.0%    6.7%     10.0%    6.7%     6.7%     10.0%    6.7%     6.7%     6.7%
2 chips  | 20.0%    13.3%    19.0%    13.3%    12.9%    19.0%    13.3%    12.9%    12.9%
3 chips  | 30.0%    20.0%    28.0%    20.0%    19.1%    27.1%    20.0%    19.1%    18.7%
4 chips  | 40.0%    26.7%    36.0%    26.7%    24.9%    35.2%    26.7%    24.9%    24.5%
5 chips  | 50.0%    33.3%    44.0%    33.3%    30.7%    42.4%    33.3%    30.7%    29.9%
6 chips  | 60.0%    40.0%    51.0%    40.0%    36.0%    48.8%    40.0%    36.0%    34.9%
7 chips  | 70.0%    46.7%    58.0%    46.0%    41.3%    55.2%    46.0%    41.3%    39.9%
8 chips  | 80.0%    53.3%    64.0%    52.0%    46.2%    60.8%    51.4%    46.2%    44.5%
9 chips  | 90.0%    60.0%    70.0%    57.3%    51.1%    65.7%    56.8%    51.1%    48.8%
10 chips | 100.0%   66.7%    75.0%    62.7%    55.6%    70.6%    61.6%    55.6%    53.1%
11 chips |          73.3%    80.0%    67.3%    60.0%    74.8%    65.9%    60.0%    57.0%
12 chips |          80.0%    84.0%    72.0%    64.0%    78.4%    70.1%    64.0%    60.6%
13 chips |          86.7%    88.0%    76.0%    68.0%    82.0%    73.9%    67.6%    64.1%
14 chips |          93.3%    91.0%    80.0%    71.6%    85.0%    77.1%    71.2%    67.4%
15 chips |          100.0%   94.0%    83.3%    75.1%    87.5%    80.4%    74.4%    70.4%
16 chips |                   96.0%    86.7%    78.2%    90.0%    83.2%    77.2%    73.3%
17 chips |                   98.0%    89.3%    81.3%    92.0%    85.6%    80.1%    76.0%
18 chips |                   99.0%    92.0%    84.0%    93.6%    88.0%    82.6%    78.4%
19 chips |                   100.0%   94.0%    86.7%    95.2%    90.0%    84.8%    80.8%
20 chips |                   100.0%   96.0%    88.9%    96.4%    91.7%    86.9%    82.9%
21 chips |                            97.3%    91.1%    97.3%    93.3%    88.8%    84.8%
22 chips |                            98.7%    92.9%    98.2%    94.7%    90.4%    86.7%
23 chips |                            99.3%    94.7%    98.8%    95.7%    92.0%    88.4%
24 chips |                            100.0%   96.0%    99.2%    96.8%    93.3%    89.8%
25 chips |                            100.0%   97.3%    99.6%    97.6%    94.4%    91.3%
26 chips |                                     98.2%    99.8%    98.2%    95.6%    92.5%
27 chips |                                     99.1%    99.9%    98.8%    96.4%    93.6%
28 chips |                                     99.6%    100.0%   99.2%    97.2%    94.7%
29 chips |                                     100.0%   100.0%   99.5%    97.9%    95.6%
30 chips |                                     100.0%   100.0%   99.7%    98.4%    96.3%
31 chips |                                                       99.9%    98.8%    97.0%
32 chips |                                                       99.9%    99.2%    97.6%
33 chips |                                                       100.0%   99.5%    98.1%
34 chips |                                                       100.0%   99.6%    98.6%
35 chips |                                                       100.0%   99.8%    98.9%
36 chips |                                                                99.9%    99.2%
37 chips |                                                                100.0%   99.5%
38 chips |                                                                100.0%   99.6%
39 chips |                                                                100.0%   99.8%
40 chips |                                                                100.0%   99.9%
41 chips |                                                                         99.9%
42 chips |                                                                         100.0%
43 chips |                                                                         100.0%
44 chips |                                                                         100.0%
45 chips |                                                                         100.0%

**********************************************************************************************

edit: added **** line for low res computers and fixed the "chips pulled" to "chips remaining".
Last edited by dier_cire on Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:25 pm

Ok, looking at this data the average chance of survival turns south between 6 and 10 chips. Subtracting 1 we get between 5 and 9 chips which is where you have a slightly better chance of survival obviously. So that's your gap where more people die than live.

Narrowing that, at 7 chips 3 of the 9 are over 50% and at 8 chips 6 of the 9 are over 50%. So, giving the PCs the better odds, you could say that 7 chips is the 50% point for the game. How many life would you like 7 chips to heal?

(19 + 7 x per chip):
1 per chip = 26 is your 50% point
2 per chip = 33 is your 50% point
3 per chip = 40 is your 50% point
4 per chip = 47 is your 50% point
5 per chip = 54 is your 50% point
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:47 pm

Actually, PVP, it is easy right now to prevent a person from coming back. Send 1 minute and remove the heart or head. They can not come back from unless they get the head or heart back.

I'm game for 2 life healed per point drawn.
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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:02 pm

Well 1 for 1 does not sound bad. If you are at 4 LP and no othe soak and hit with 30 then yeah you should have a hard time living through that.
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Post Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:40 am

That's the question. How easy do you want people to come back from a 30 boom when they are at 1 life? I personaly think it should be done with medium risk. It does not happen to everyone, but at least 1 to 3 people an event reach that low or lower.

I personaly think having only a surgeon to heal past -9 will put more fear into negatives and death which I think is needed.

I really do like the new idea. With 2 life given per chip, that means a person would have to draw 5 chips to come back to zero life with the above stituation. Which is scary even with 3 surgeon's (to me, I rearly see 3 surgeons around to work on 1 person to bring them back from deep negatives) I agree 3 or higher makes it esier and less scary, but I could go either way.

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Post Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:44 am

I still like one for one
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Post Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:53 pm

You can't control the NPCs is one problem. Many fight like they have something to prove whether they're playing spectral knights or goblin youths. There will always be NPCs who machinegun their five crushes.

Also many parties only have one healer available. Generally having more than one surgeon available to work on the same individual is quite the luxury. I've only been involved in a multiple surgeon surgery once or twice - either only one surgeon is present, or they're all busy trying to save multiple people.
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