Lore...thoughts?

[Kidwynn]

Overall I like how scout works. BTW fyi on people doing builds both scout and spot combined is VERY NICE.

The hints you gave were great as well as when I could actually track something.

Scout like sage is in asking the right questions. I also love how a group can't go after something without having a scout near. Ka running back saying damn it I forgot a scout, come on Kidwynn was priceless.

[Torakhan]

Sounds like the new Sage Hint thing went well.

Good feedback. Love to hear from more scouts. It might be that we need to change how scout works. Well change it back

Well, I can see where "Scouting", more than "Saginess" would more likely require someone to go out along the paths and up to a location (NPC camp) more often. Hmmm. Would you go back to how it was for Scouting? Or is there a way to incorporate the original idea too? Or do both, like for Sages... Scouts could be given one at the beginning (representing what they've found during "downtime"), and maybe be allowed a number of Scout Hints during the event (based on level of Scout?) that they have to ask a GM or go to NPC camp for?...

But maybe going back would work just as well, since Scouting really is dangerous and going out to NPC camp through whatever means you wish would represent that?

[Kalphoenix]

I didn't play a sage last game, but I LOVED how the sage hints created a ton of roleplaying with people talking about certain things and someone else going "OH! I heard something about that!"

I think scout could work like it used to, with scouts being able to physically travel to a location to get a hint/info. It makes sense for a scout to have to scout more than it does have a sage traveling to NPC camp and scouting hints are restricted to a certain area of expertise.

I hope that made sense, I looked at it and my head started hurting.

[GM_Chris]

Ok I am brining back this topic back to life

I have heard through the grapevine that the majority of people hated the new lore system, yet this thread is nothing but indorsements for it.

Both situations cannot be correct since they are mutually exclusive.

SO which is it please?
Do you like the way we did lore or not like it?
If you did not like it then why?
Did you like lore, but hated scout hints?
Did you hate both?
Like both?

I really really need to know.

[Slisk]

I agree with the posts above that scouts should travel (and risk encounters) to get their hints.

[Onimaster]

The main reason Chris reopend this is that we got told people were really unhappy with the new lore system at our last event, and were told multiple times that people felt releived we were using the old system. But they need to speak up.

[Malphus]

I think part of the problem is that only a small portion of the community is on the forums. If, You are basing your decisions on on-line response. Well, that is kindof like assuming the effects of the US election represents the will of the people. I wasn't there, so I can't say whether it worked or not. SOunds like it is better planned than the old system, but I can't speak to the execution.

[Esmerelda]

I'm really curious as to who didn't like it? As far as I know, there were 4 people at the last event who got sage hints- Corbyn (who said he liked it) me (who really loved it) Ingram (Who didn't post on this forum so I'm guessing he didn't have an opinion either way) and Hannah (Who while never posts, I know her husband does and didn't say anything so I'm guessing was a neutral opinion as well.) If the sages that actually used the skill really liked it, isn't that what matters? People keep mentioning this mysterious "they" who didn't like the Sage system yet "They" are never defined. Are there really people out there who didn't like it that actually played with the system or is this just rumor perpetuated by non sages who don't like the idea?

[NewGuy]

[rant]

Not to speak for 'them', merely about 'them'...there are players who attend Winter Haven and not Final Haven. Officially changing the FH rules will consequently change the WH rules. Also there were players at the FH event that have Sage characters hwo were not at the event. Finally, This also concerns scouts.

As I said earlier, the hint about candy mountain really saved our necks, but the scouts could have gotten that info the old way. I believe scout hints should stay the old way. I did not like being a scout the new way. Scouts might be able to glean some info between events, as I think the game-on info was supposed to represent, but I believe scouts should HAVE to take the risks for their info. (and i don't believe a simple walk to NPC camp is risk enough, I want more danger)

Finally, even though I wasn't a sage, my two cents is that I didn't like the new format, and was glad WH's last event kept the old way. It's all been said before about sage's usefullness and combat abilities. Sages have NO armor restriction. A full plate sage should have no problem making the tiny little walk to NPC camp. Yes the RP mechanics might not make sence to leave your 'safty zone', but it is your choice on how to RP your skills.

[/rant]

[Malphus]

Winterhaven is a chapter of Finalhaven. I don't believe it is restricted from having "house rules", is it? If the player base at WH feel strongly enough about a skill mechanic, can't it just operate as a consensus, provided the GMs agree?

Can't it just be a "that's how it operates at WH" thing?

Steve

[NewGuy]

First, I was merely suggesting that some of the complaining might not be WH characters

Secondly I've seen a level of dissent between single chapter characters and cross-chapter charaters (on both sides) in the three events I made to let me think that would be a bad idea. Also it could result in confusion once the chapters start diverging. (how does the skill work here?)

Additionally, once the rulebooks start diverging, that sets precedence for practiacally anything which could eventually eliminate cross-chapter play. Some may like that, some may not, I can't say. But it can lead to WH characters requesting skills, paths, disciplines, races that the FH GM staff would never allow, because it's a different chapter. (actually, I like that idea, then my Combat Medic might finally come into existance)

[Malphus]

doesn't matter to me, I will probably never go to WH. The dates don't seem to jive. Then again, the FH dates don't really jive either. Hmm...

[cole45]

Hannah didn't like the sage hints for a number of reasons. (she doesn't use the boards.)

Ingram (joe) also did not like them.

Lastly, Vaun wasn't happy with the way they played out either.

(please keep in mind I am not the one saying the following.)

Hannah felt that the sage hint she got was useless. She didn't know who the plot was for and no one asked her about it. She is very shy and the ONLY reason the plays hannah is to be as helpful as possible. (hense she's an alchemist,sage craftman.) she felt that no one really needed her with the new sage hints.

Vaun felt that the new sage hint method jacked up the way she played her character. She also felt it limited her usefullness as a sage.


I think the core is half of the sages Loved the INTERACTIVE portion of the sage hints, and the other half of the sages LIKED being the information Go to people on each plot.

Lastly, i don't think they liked it because of the RANDOM sage hints. They felt less like they were researching something, and more like they were spinning a wheel. Warriors don't attack random targets, and empaths don't cast random boons. (This is no my opinion, nor anyone posting now, which is why i have to do it.)

I kid you not, but when we said we doing it the old way at WH the crowd cheer. (for whatever reason.)

I'm not a sage, so I will not express my own feelings here.

I apologize in advance if I misquoted/represent/replicated anything incorrectly.

[NewGuy]

She felt that no one really needed her with the new sage hints.

She helped my character, if that's any consolation

[Torakhan]

The call to keep the Sage system the way it is written is mostly due to the "As it is written" rule that Winter Haven follows. Since the last Final Haven game was a "play test" of the new sage rules, it was decided that Winter Haven would keep the system the book says until a change has been officially released.

Any "House Rules" that Winter Haven follows are (as far as I know) either NPC/GM "field calls" for plot reasons or before the real rules can be found and enforced.

(If I'm incorrect, I'll edit or remove this post.)