Sage Hint - > NPC Camp

[Wyrmwrath]

That's the only excuse why a Sage has to wander outside and go up to NPC camp--because there isn't a GM closer to them. Period.

wrong. eilonway leaves the building because thats how her sage gets her hints, doing the funky mojo in the woods

The effect is that it feels to me more like Final Haven is less "LARP with Foam Combat", and more like "Foam Combat with LARP".

uhm...the L and the A in LARP mean LIVE ACTION..AKA foam combat. Its part of the concept. If it wasnt we would be sitting at a table talking about what our PCs do.

Art you seem to be forgetting two things:
1) the game world is a violent frontier, EVERYONE in it is always at risk. Its the nature of hte setting.
2) the sage doesnt HAVE to go to monster camp and be at risk, they can chose to sit in the inn till a GM arrives

[NewGuy]

Slightly off-topic, slightly-on topic:

We were using the Inn as a make-shift "hospital" last WH event, with the wounded running from the battle in town to the Inn when in peril. An npc on his way back from the battle to NPC camp came over to the Inn, and started spawning as Lightning Elementals from the lights. This goes to show that even just sitting in the Inn isn't always safe, and running to town wasn't safe at the time either.

[cole45]

Last event, Ingram and sen were attacked by three dead peasents with claws on the way back from a sage hint. We threw them the beat down and went on our mary way.

I just don't think this is the grand problem it seems to be. I don't think the Gms should need to be tied down to visiting the PCs every few minutes to get/give sage hints.

The fact of the matter is, you can get wacked, any where, any time, doing anything, and Sages are no exeption. If you are PLAYING a non-combat sage/Warrior/Healer, that is fine, but your going to have to deal with the risk IN game.

[GM_Chris]

Wikki wkii pado!

I don't have any idea what that is.

I think there is some greast stuff in this discussion thread!

Oh and I love everyone.

[Eilonwy]

A certain Shakespeare title keeps floating to my mind, but I'll leave it to you literary types to figure out which one.

Uhm...Taming of the Shrew?? Othello?? Debbi does Dallas??

I'm thinking Much Ado About Nothing, personally.

As weird as it was in my example with Esmerelda, if it's how it works, then *shrug*. As per Mike's comment, I've run into NPC's who have mostly ignored my journey to their camp over the 3 or so years I've gone. And conversely been in dire peril in caves, forest and buildings with puzzles needing hints. If it causes that much OOG conflict to be OOC, then IC it is.

As long as the warriors who ask for the hints are prepared to possibly escort a squishy on a dark night with assassins in the woods to get it.

[Kalphoenix]

uhm...the L and the A in LARP mean LIVE ACTION..AKA foam combat. Its part of the concept. If it wasnt we would be sitting at a table talking about what our PCs do.

I disagree that Live-Action necessarily means combat. I didn't spend more than five minutes digging through google, but I didn't find one definition that said LA means "foam weapon combat." It means acting out a scene. That doesn't HAVE to mean combat, indeed, if more people roleplayed their characters in an honest and realistic way, there would be LESS combat, because people don't generally want to get hurt, injured or killed. Sometimes I agree that the game should be more deadly, but then I realize the only people who suffer are the ones who care more about role-playing than just the numbers of their characters. The Numbers just roll up identical characters and start over with nary a wink.

Since we want to pick nits on what the letters in LARP stand for: The RP stands for ROLEPLAYING. We have enough people who consider roleplaying optional (Or at least make it well known on the boards or elsewhere how they feel about roleplaying) that it makes saying that "LA means combat" a blanket statement at best. Since we have players who can choose whether to roleplay or not, that means I can choose whether to accept combat or not, right (No thanks, this part isn't fun for me so I'm going to skip it)?

But I didn't start this thread to get an argument going about roleplaying vs combat, I did it to get a clarification for the people whom seem to be confused on what the rule is regarding going to NPC camp for sagehints.

My only other intent is to get said rules in the book so people who make a sage understand that certain concepts WON'T work with the sage, because at some point you have to go to NPC camp for whatever reason, in-character. The same with other In-game/out of game suggestions that put your character at risk, such as "gathering", recipe/spell books and spell packets. It has to be the same for all players, or it's not fair and just leads to bitter feelings. At some point even the most consummate roleplayer is going to get jaded and ask themselves why they should put their character in danger for a rule mechanic that only some people have to follow.

If I don't like the rules, I'll try to get them modified. If that doesn't work and I can't agree to disagree and still follow the rules, no one is forcing me to play. It is ALWAYS a choice. If people didn't care, they would just quit and be done with it, they wouldn't make an attempt to understand why something is the way it is, or try to change it.

I'd like to say more, but we're getting off-track as to the discussion of this particular thread.

[Torakhan]

hhm...the L and the A in LARP mean LIVE ACTION..AKA foam combat. Its part of the concept. If it wasnt we would be sitting at a table talking about what our PCs do.

Live Action = foam combat. Isn't it funny how many other LARPs don't have foam combat, and yet, they are still called LARPs? Even more so that the idea of a foam combat larp isn't what most people think of as LARP since Minds Eye Theater and Living X are more common?

That's the only excuse why a Sage has to wander outside and go up to NPC camp--because there isn't a GM closer to them. Period.

wrong. eilonway leaves the building because thats how her sage gets her hints, doing the funky mojo in the woods

I said "Has", not "Chooses". Eilonway may choose to wander out into the woods where it's dangerous because that is how she thinks about things, but does she do that if a GM is sitting there beside her after her 15 minutes of "recalling"? Yes, she she could wait until a GM arrives, but then that's an artificial time added on because of an OOC problem (and we're trying to put a stop to these OOC things that don't make sense, right?)

Yes, it's a violent frontier... especially when you walk outside. The 15 minutes of Recall is the time when the Sage is vulnerable and doing their thing to get the answers. Nothing in the description of the ability says they have to do ANYTHING to represent their finding out (or attempting to find out) the answers. Yes, they can RP it anyway they want... asking stones, talking to villiagers, or sitting in a corner trying to remember things they were told as a child (thus, the term Recall, I'd assume) If a GM running the plot is in the building/nearby you don't have to go outside. That makes it arbitrary. You can wait for a GM, but that could be 6 or 8 hours later. The reason for waiting an extra 7 hours for a sage hint? An OOC reason. Doesn't that break the whole "scene" thing?

Well then... let's make it that other things have to go to NPC camp for tags. Why do Craftsmen and Alchemists get to create their own tags? It's just as likely they could abuse the making of tags as someone looking in envelopes kept in a public space for Sage Hints.

I suggest all Sage Augment, Alchemy and Crafting require going to NPC camp to trade in tags for new Item and Potion tags. This ensures that the correct time and requirements are used and replaced with the correct tags.

This way it's not just the Sage ability that has this problem. You want that Sage buff? You want a Sword, or a Shield? You want Cure potions or special metals? Well, after 6 hours of brewing that potion you'd better go up to NPC camp for the tags.

And as for Sages... take out the "find a game master running the plot is not busy" part. Make it mandatory that they must ALWAYS go to NPC camp for a Sage Hint. That way it's not arbitrary on what is happening OOC. Keep the rule and the mechanic consistant.

[Eilonwy]

For the record, Eilonwy does not wander into the dark for personal preferences when seeking intuition. It's to find an NPC. Otherwise, the character concept is "casting" the runes or having visions; so the IG NPC seeking reason is fudged. Guess some fresh air is needed.

[Torakhan]

For the record, Eilonwy does not wander into the dark for personal preferences when seeking intuition. It's to find an NPC. Otherwise, the character concept is "casting" the runes or having visions; so the IG NPC seeking reason is fudged. Guess some fresh air is needed.

I don't know Eilonway well enough, but I didn't think she wandered out alone in order to Recall... but I wasn't going to say anything since I didn't know for sure. I thought I remembered you (or someone else) mentioning the runes...

[Eilonwy]

Exactly. So now the sage'll be "getting fresh air" after using the runes or whatever since the GMs have clarified the rules.

Guess I'm just tired. I understand both sides (and the middle areas) but what it comes down to, is sometimes it seems in order to either stop cheaters (er, no you can't attack me, I'm OOG), misunderstandings (crap, they were OOG but now know I want to kill them), or OOG detractors (argh, someone with their arm overhead, completely broke game for me; as I was saying, dude have you seen that new movie...), we've got the no OOG rule. Again *shrug*. If there were ways to better deal with those things, maybe the rules could be more mellow. After all, this is still virtual, not reality.

[Wyrmwrath]

Isn't it funny how many other LARPs don't have foam combat, and yet, they are still called LARPs?

I can call a game; with two teams of 5 players running back and forth pretending to throw something in a hoop; basketball...doesnt mean it is basketball.
LARPing started when groups formed live D&D style games that involved no dice and foma combat. Thats a LARP. Rock/PAper/Scissor role playing games at Live Role Playing games, but have as mutch ACTION as watching somone hang wall paper.

Even more so that the idea of a foam combat larp isn't what most people think of as LARP since Minds Eye Theater and Living X are more common?

More common WHERE? in the Detroit area? in Michigan? Cause if you take all the LARPS currently active and compare them to the no foam combat games, LARPS outnumber them in differing systems; number of active chapters, AND total membership.

Well then... let's make it that other things have to go to NPC camp for tags. Why do Craftsmen and Alchemists get to create their own tags? It's just as likely they could abuse the making of tags as someone looking in envelopes kept in a public space for Sage Hints.

I do agree that any tags a PC skill generates NEEDS to come from NPC camp and be signed and/or date stamped or notarised officialy in some way.

[Wyrmwrath]

It means acting out a scene.

L ive
A CTION
R ole
P laying

not

L ive
A CTING
R ole
P laying

I dont see why you need to Google to find a defintion

[Wyrmwrath]

For the record, Eilonwy does not wander into the dark for personal preferences when seeking intuition.

My apology, should have noted I was using her as an exampleanology rather than stating fact. She was the first sage that sprung to mind.

What I was trying to convay is, if the GMs gave sages cell phones to call in for hints, a sage could still be required by the way they are set up(by the player that makes them) to "commune with nature". So the mechanic ISNT the only reason they have to go outside. In fact for some PC types it makes MORe sense for them to be outside than inside, reguardless where the GMs are.

[GM_Chris]

Im just going to say wikki wikki pa doo!

Hey I actually can get behind the all goes to NPC camp thing.

Oh no one commented on the original intent thing I posted.

Sage hints were meant to be used on the plot you are currently on, not randomly, throughout the event.

I remember the first time we dropped off a puzzle and some sage walked in looking for a hint and I was like "what the heck!"

You know we could just take the hints we have and every event drop the cards into different sage's check in sheet. These hints may be about this event, future events, past events. In anycase they will be secret lore stuff. Then have the 15 minute rule STRICLTY be for during plot hints. This would elliminate all need to wander to NPC camp. Now the cool thing is you may have hints for a plot you never went on, so if yo went on a plot and need help you would have to find the sage who has the info.

Thoughts?

[Wyrmwrath]

i think that is alot more in line with a Sage being a bookworm/seer and essentialy being the masters of trivia/fonts of useless knowledge taht suprisingly become useful.

However id reccomend having a box of clues/hints taht gets divided among the sages that show up. you may have folders for 6 sages in the PC box but only have two show for an event. Then the other clues/hints are lost and if your planning on the hints making it possible for the PCs to "connect the dots" of a plot, they may be missing info.