Lash and warrior skills

[dier_cire]

If you are facing a non magic Lash (1 vorpal disease lash, or 2 lash), is it a frontal melee attack?

For balance purposes, I'd have to go with yes.

The "concept" of the skill is you are hitting people all around not that you are jumping over the peoples bodies and hitting them in the back. I mean a "12 Backstab Lash" just sounds odd that it should work if you are facing someone. Now, I'm all for field rulings for specific monsters that maybe violate the basic rule, but for general purposes I think lash needs to be considered frontal IF you are facing the attack.

[GM_Chris]

Yeah but it also isn't nessissarily melee. I think that is what will stop you using your skills.

[dier_cire]

Wouldn't that be a gm call though? I'm just saying in general unless otherwise stated it should be considered defendable via parry, defensive matrix, and hold ground. Obviously, if it's a monster special effect you'll have time to decide in inbetween time if it is or isn't defendable.

[Onimaster]

No, lash is not a 'melee attack' as it is an area effect. So abilities that effect melee attacks (Def. Matrix, Parry, etc.) should not effect it regardless of how it is manifested in narration.

As far as I know AOE also does not have a direction corollation as your either in the area effected or not, and if an ability reduces or negates a melee attack it only counts when someone physically hits you with a weapon physrep.

When you start breaking mechanics down into whether something should hit, or not, because of the way the mechanical effect translates into the drama and flavor of the scene you have problems. Better to keep the mechanics a clear constant distinction that try to arbitrate based on scenarios.

[cole45]

And an effect like backstab lash would not work, simply because of exclusionary mechanics. Backstab REQUIRES you to strike a target in the back with a weapon phys rep. Lash, does not accomplish this effect. While lash deals damage, it does not fill the requirements for backstab.

[dier_cire]

What happens if lash is not defendable is it beocmes overpowered with no counter. A 2 lash call becomes just an excuse for forcing the pc to take damage which is stupid. This is unacceptable in my mind.

As for the lash backstab, I believe it can be achieved via a hero point. And if lash is omni directional then it could be done. Again, not acceptable in my mind.

[Onimaster]

There is not a hero point effect that makes an attack lash...

What Can I Do With Hero Points
Hero Points can be used to do any of the following things:
1. Reduce the time required to activate a skill, cast a ritual or create an item by one minute. Multiple hero
points may be spent to reduce time.
2. Gain 5 temporary life for a battle or scene. At the end of the scene, your character returns to the maximum
total life that you possess or maintains the current life level, whichever is lower. Multiple Hero Points may be
used in this fashion to stack additional temporary life. For example, A Sage with eight life points is caught out
in the woods alone by a pack of Beastmen. He calls for help but knows he won’t survive long enough to be
rescued as is. He spends two Hero Points to raise his life temporarily to 18. By the time he friends arrive and
deal with the Beastmen, the Sage has been reduced to 10 life. The combat is over, so his remaining temporary
life vanishes, returning him to his maximum of eight life. Had he been damaged for 14 points during the
fighting, he would remain at four points after the combat, as this level is below his maximum life.
3. Increase your damage by 1 point for a battle or scene. Multiple Hero Points may not be spent in this fashion
to stack additional damage. This affects all forms of damage your character can deliver.
4. Resist the effects of Torture.

[GM_Chris]

Lash isnt too overpowered in that PC lash kills the pc quickly.

We do not balance effects to other effects we balance package to package.

[dier_cire]

I'm not refering to PC lash. PC lash isn't a melee based type attack. It's more of the npc type where it's not magic. I mean the "1 vorpal disease lash" means you are taking it unless you are one specfic discipline... There's no balance there package to package or effect to effect.

But whatever...

[cole45]

in the hands of NPC's

"1 vorpal disease lash" is a tool to provide an effect the Gm's are looking to accompish. It can be prevented by a number of things. I know of several potions,magic items,special equipment as well as eater of the dead that would prevent this. (and maybe some arcane spells.)

As for it's balance, it follows all calls legalities. It not like every peasent swings it.


As for Lash and backstab,
Again, even if Lash is omni-directional, it still does not meet backstab's "Strike the back with a weapon" requirement. If you call lash, you did not hit them with the physrep in the target area. It therefore does not apply.

[Peace420]

I agree with Ried in the fact that if there is a 2 lash or 2 vorpal lash call without any of the other stuff there is no counter to it at all, except for possibly under the effects of a spell or potion and the basic mechanics shouldn't take those types of resists or immunities into account.

[WayneO42]

I agree that lash is not a melee attack, that being said, I think it makes sense for Defensive matrix to work on it (Including trap damage). We should just add to the defensive matrix skill to make it look something like:

Defensive Matrix
A Warrior may spend 1 life point to enter defensive matrix. While in defensive matrix, a Warrior will swing 0 damage and can use no other skills, but all incoming frontal melee and lash damage is reduced by 1 point.

[Peace420]

Maybe there needs to be a difference between lash and melee lash? Because the Kidwell gargoyles had a lash effect that should definitely have been melee.

[cole45]

That makes sense. And Since defensive matrix works on Magic damage, no special changes would be nessisary. Parry should still not work on lash though.

[cole45]

The kidwell gargoyls indeed did. Wing strike. And I have heard discussion about a monk-like lash attack.