New Rules Feedback


A glimpse into the process of LARP design, into the minds of the creators, and a chance to interact on a design level with the GMs--basically what we're thinking and why

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Post Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:42 am

New Rules Feedback

You are assigned a number based on your square footage (shoulder to shoulder width x shoulder to knee height). That is your SHIELD NUMBER, measured the same way.


The benchmarks used currently are shoulder to shoulder width x shoulder to knee height for "rectangular" shields, and knees to sternum for round shield diameter.

Based on square footage your SHIELD NUMBER and the number directly under are considered (LARGE). The next 2 numbers are considered (MEDIUM). Numbers lower than that are considered (SMALL).
Shields no longer have a "Toughness" rating. Shields can now only be destroyed via the "Shatter" skill


Why is this being removing this from the game? It radically decreases the realism of shields in the LARP setting. shield category has always been based on how much damage it can take.

Shields no longer affect Armor Category

Why?

Since Composite armor and shields, as well as durable shields are no longer going to have any value and will be removed; what is that plan for players with such items? Are there plans for craftsmen to add resist shatters or some similar effect?

Mandatory: Shields must be tagged! We will provide the tag for the Shield Number, and the Shield's tag must be attached to the shield

If you let me know the size of the tags you intend for shields, I may well have a source self adhering transparent sleeves that many LARPs use for weapon and shield tags.

Wielding a large shield decreases passive damage by (1), minimum (1)

I see no logic, or game mechanic reason for such a change. What is the goal in doing this?

If you have the Use Shield skill twice, then:
Wielding a single weapon, no shield, or a small shield and a single weapon will increase passive damage by (1)

I cant grasp the logic on increased damage due to taking use shield twice, a shield skill has no correlation to damage output. For logical continuity are you going to institute shorter channel durations for resist fear twice or extra Life Points for scout twice?
Since there currently isn't a bonus for having use shield twice, I can understand a move to implement one; but it should fit the skill. I would suggest something like:
> essence or LP expenditure to res shatter (the cost would have to be large, say 4 essence)
> allow use of essence to power parry skill when using a shield (if the Pc has the Parry skill)
> allow use of essence to resist press when using shield.

Determining Maximum Armor Category (Light, Medium, Heavy) based on Paths. Path limits Max Armor you can wear

How is the change to armor category going to affect the elven discipline level 2 skill (armored)

Magus

Will there be spell book size, storage capacity, and creation rules implemented?

Vigor (+1LP)

I am unclear why Magus, which is essentially the new wizard, rates Vigor as a path skill over Healer, Rogue, or Sage

Essence Increase (+2 Essence Pool) / Essence you have available is as follows: Magus (8), Sage (7), Healer (6), Jack (5), Empath (4), Rogue (3), Warrior (2).

Rather than have this as a skill(wasting a skill slot), why not just have the magus start with 10 essence total in his/her pool?

Sense Essence (Swap-Out Skill) - Can determine the Essence level of individuals 15 second charge time.

Have the mechanics of this been fleshed out yet? Will it be like spotting a disguise or will it not be noticeable when a PC uses the skill?

Durable Components (Swap-Out Skill) - usually spells will burn up material components. This allows the Magus to reuse components

Since Magus is likely going to be the main component consumer for spells, do you not see this leading to a glut of them, or an unbalanced affect on the Pc to PC economy (since one a Magus has a component, it will never need to be acquired again)

Negate Magic - If in possession of a Spell you are hit with (game stop effect) can counter the spell. If you do not know the spell you can resist it and allow those within lash range to resist as well, 5 minute reload (Swap-Out Skill)

Is this meant to replace counterspell?
also, the radius counterspell seems mechanically clunky.

Empath
Essence Bolt - Spend 1 Essence for 3 Magic with a 10 second reload

Why this and not just a version of Channel (Charge 1 magic per second of charging, maximum of 15) with a max of 5 damage? Can you explain why the move to weaken a basic empath?

Administer - Cure potions or Essence potions increase their value by (1), reduces "Healing" or "Restore Essence" skills by 5 seconds. This effect does not stack with multiple "Administers"

Why does the empath version of this affect heal potions, and the Healer version affect essence restore potions? Should they not be path specific?

Healer
Healing - Heals (2) Life Points, 30 second charge

Is this intended to be 2 LP, there by making the improved healing specialty unneeded?
Resurgence (Swap-Out Skill) - Spend 2 Permanent Life Points for the event, Heal 10 Life Points. Can only be used on self. Can be used in negatives.

If a PC is unconscious(which most are in negative LP) how do they activate skills?

Rogue
deadly Focus

It should have a Verbal to indicate its being used. (possibly just "Focus!")

Sage

why was utalize removed?

Disenchant

Why would a sage have this and not an Empath or Magus?

Battle Tactics - Utilize Essence (x) to grant a single non-typed Buff to everyone present for a speech. This does not count as a type of enchantment so it stacks with potions, augments, and talismans. Sage would make a speech for ten minutes and give out a non-typed buff and a trigger phrase which the sage would spend their Essence to yell out during a battle, granting everyone who hears it a use of their buff. Buffs will be listed in skill description.

The activation mechanic seems VERY clunky.

Magic Item Attunement - +1 Maximum Magic Item Attunement, Attunement takes 15 minutes as opposed to 30

I am curious how this is a sage skill instead of a Magus and empath skill. Both are more in tune with manipulating essence and (from a game design paradigm)are paths more likely to need the extra items.

Warrior
Imbued Armor (Swap-Out Skill) - Spend Essence (X) to re pop armor points

I honestly think this skill is a mistake. armor has nothing to do with essence, and it has the potential of dragging out combat because warriors have insta switch copies of their armor like they are wearing Stark tech on their belt.


Spell-Wall - Warrior takes the effect of a gamestop ability, takes the damage if any, but nobody behind him for the distance of the spell is affected. The effect stops at the Warrior, and the Warrior can use no Resist abilities

awesome addition

Removal of Personal Income, All Item Upkeep, and all Basic Survival Upkeep for both chapters. Discipline skills will continue to give income where applicable. The rest of the economic system will be essentially unchanged though better clarified.

This just makes no sense. Can you explain your goal in doing this?

New Discipline: Brewer
[1] Consume Ingredient - A Brewer can destroy/consume a resource tag (5 second count) for a predefined effect. For example, destroy a food tag to restore a life point. Other resources still being discussed.
This seems like a weak level one skill.
[4] True Potions - Allows the creation of Tier 2 potions

I suggest this be called Elixirs (Better term/buss word), True Potions is awkward.

Magic Item Attunement
A player can only have a certain number of magic items based on level. These magic items take 30 minutes to attune and cannot be used until the player has attuned them. Everyone has 1 base Magic Item Attunement slot. A second slot is gained at Level 20 and every 20 levels after that until Level 80, maximum 5 Magic Item Attunement slots (unless you have a skill that grants you an additional slot).

I could get behind this if it was a base of 1, +1 for every 20 or 25 levels up to 100, and then every 50 levels.

Character Retirement
Retiring a character will grant a 25% return based on Levels and items in market value for the player’s next character. Retirement is with GM approval. Epic Deaths may also grant this retirement bonus, considered on a case by case basis by the GM-Team
.
They should be allowed to keep any earned Hero points as well, sort of the hero that was now empowering the new hero.

Level Progression Bonuses

Big fan of the new progression schedule, looking forward to updated Perk list. Here are a few suggestions:
+1 essence
+1 Attunement Slot
Profession (RP skill like jeweler/baker/cobbler that generate income and may have some used on GM run plots. Should be a set list to pick from unless GM staff approves something else)

Path Specific Heroic Actions
When using the heroic version of the skill, you must make the call “Heroic [name of skill]”

Big fan of Path specialized Hero Point uses.

Essence Boons
Income -- Between Events, you earn money...somehow. You get 5 silver at game on.

I think if your going to leave the access in game, just go back to a copper every level or two levels so that it stays relevant no matter what level the PC rises too.

+2 essence should be a boon included with the addition of new essence based skills.

Weight/Carrying Capacity
Because of the difference in the size of a tag versus the item it is meant to represent, a character may carry a maximum of 10 resources on their person.

Is 10 a misprint, or intentionally increased from 3?

Class One containers only require one person to move, are free for anyone to build in fifteen minutes, and can carry up to 15 Resources. Some examples of these containers are satchels, backpacks, and burlap sacks. A class one container must be at least 12" on its smallest side or 1 cubic foot.

Is this in addition to what a PC can normally carry, or was it intended to simply increase the capacity from 10 to 15?

Class One containers takes 15 minutes to craft / Class two containers takes 30 minutes to craft / Class three containers takes 30 minutes to craft. / Class four containers takes 2 Hours to craft

Was the craft time disparity here intentional?

Containers may be destroyed by inflicting structural point damage equal to its class. For example, a class three container has three structural points. Any contents within a destroyed container are also destroyed, unless the item states otherwise.

Will there be craftsmen options to increase the SP of a container?


possibly more to come.....
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Post Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:31 am

Re: New Rules Feedback

I cant grasp the logic on increased damage due to taking use shield twice, a shield skill has no correlation to damage output.

My best guess..

Because you are so well versed in the usage of your shield, you have learned to use it as a weapon. Because ACTUALLY using your shield as a weapon (shield bash, etc) has been deemed too dangerous for Final Haven, and phys-repping that by duel wielding with a shield strapped to your arm seems quite dangerous too, so to simulate using your shield as another weapon, they are allow you to just do the extra damage with one weapon.

Do I think this is a perfect answer? No. To use Brian's words, it does feel a bit "clunky." I wouldn't mind seeing a life/essence point expenditure skill being used for the scene - but I would make using a shield phys-rep for the skill mandatory (unless one of you rule makers explain your stance on how use shield x2 = +1 damage with no shield, and can persuade me otherwise).

Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting FH is in the wrong for not allowing shield bashing and the like and I support their decision, but I have heard of other LARPs allowing such things.

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Post Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:38 am

Re: New Rules Feedback

Thanks for the constructive feedback. I will try and answer some of your questions.

Shields
This might surprise you, but one of our most consistent complaints from players is the use of large shields and the perception that many of them have grown bigger and biger, stretching the limits of the rules in place and potentially creating some safety concerns. Knowing that people are variable sizes, we needed to maintain shield sizes based upon person size in some standardized way, and we wanted to lessen the number of large shields in the game, whether that stretched realism or not. The shoulder to knee length, however, is the fairest way to determine size and thus wanted to start there and work backward

As mentioned, the name Use Shield will likely be changed to something like Strength Training which will allow characters to wield a shield (and may have other in game uses). Having that skill twice suggests increased strength, fully utilized when less encumbered, thus the increase in damage.

Paths
We are still working on disciplines but obviously skills that involved armor restrictions in any way will be looked at and tweaked/changed

Magus has a potentially high use skill that costs a life point. We therefore granted them an additional one. Need a metaphysical reason? How about they are so attune to essence that they can supplement their own life supply with it. They have the essence increase to provide choice for the magus (more power or do other things) and to provide a relatively cheap option for other paths to increase their own essence. Sense Essencs is still being discussed. Do you have a suggestion as to how it should work? Since the Magus is the main spellcasters in game, then they should get a bonus over other people casting spells--thus the durable components, though your concern is noted. Negate Magic replaces counterspell, yes. Since it will happen during a game break, we figured it could be a little clunky, but we are open to suggestions to make it less so.

The Essence Bolt gives you an instant 3 magic (5 if you have the boon). That doesn't seem weak to me. There was a really good reason why administer works for both cure and restore but it's escaping me at the moment. I'll get back to you on that one. At the very least, this is simpler.

Resurgence is a special skill, representing the healer's cling to the life force energy of the world, thereby giving them the ability to utilize life's potential (weakening them) to reclaim their foothold on the living world.

I agree Deadly focus should have a verbal associated with it.

Utilize resource was removed because personal upkee was removed and would therefore be useless for the majority of sages.

We have attempted to change magic up and have some magic related skills across paths, representing the idea that everyone is more attuned to magic. Disenchant is the knowledge of how to suppress that magic, a more analytical study, if you will, which is why it is in sage. Battle tactics is being worked on to remove the clunkiness. I think we disagree that the empath and magus need extra magic items. Again, like disenchant, we see the magic item attunement more as a clearer understanding of magic. They might not be able to get as much raw power out of it but they understand it better on a more intellectual level. They can therefore get a little more out of it, are a little more efficient with it, if you will.

You might be right about imbued armor. With empaths having the ability to shatter armor and stagger combat reflexes and disease, we thought maybe the warrior should have a way to counter at least part of that, though the empath could start by scorcing their essence, so it may be moot. We'll look at it.

Other
The removal of personal upkeep and income is to simplify the system. People can still get money if they want it and prices will reflect the decrease in personal money. There will also hopefully be increased treasure for questing.

Elixirs is a good name for the skill, will discuss.

We are going to start where we have it for magic item attunement but it may tweak higher in the future.

I agree that hero points should be kept--we'll discuss that as well. Will also discuss the +2 essence boon--I agree that makes sense.

We did increase the amount you could carry up to 10 and yes a class 1 just increases capacity to 15. Crafting times didn't change from previous, though a time was given to class 1. We're still working on craftsman but will keep in mind the possibility of increasing SP of containers.

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Post Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:53 pm

Re: New Rules Feedback

essence bolt alone, or combined with the boon, is very good, as it increases empath burst by allowing you to charge and throw a channel then immediately throw a bolt before going on cooldown. it also cannot be interrupted and is therefore more versatile in its use then a charge up skill.

I loved the shield changes because it adds choice that fits with the theme (though I totally agree on the name change) shield = defense at lack of offense, one weapon = offense at the lack of defense, duel wield = mix of both. while this is not particularly true in real life, its a good stance for a *game* to take, we were nearing the point in mechanics previously where shields were both the best offense and the best defense, and single weapon was just no good.

and while imbued armor is weird from a meta game stand point its use especially in PvE is pretty cool. though I would like to know the exact ratio of essence to armor on imbue armor? is it 1-1?
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Post Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:24 pm

Re: New Rules Feedback

as it increases empath burst

a what?

I loved the shield changes because it adds choice that fits with the theme

no clue what the sentence means.

shield = defense at lack of offense, one weapon = offense at the lack of defense, duel wield = mix of both.

This is your paradigm because you have no real combat experience. A sword and board style is as effective, if not MORE effective than two weapons if the combatants are equally skilled.

its a good stance for a *game* to take

not in any logical argument its not.

we were nearing the point in mechanics previously where shields were both the best offense and the best defense

please explain how, in a system with ZERO offensive shield skills, a shield could possibly be the best offense?


and single weapon was just no good.

that has nothing to do with shield mechanics. That is due to the fact that a single weapon is just inferior in combat unless its a pole or two handed weapon, for which the FH mechanics is lacking.

and while imbued armor is weird from a meta game stand point its use especially in PvE is pretty cool.

I don't agree, but since FH is a game where PVP can happen, I think the rule/skill will be problematic.
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Post Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:54 pm

Re: New Rules Feedback

Shields
This might surprise you, but one of our most consistent complaints from players is the use of large shields and the perception that many of them have grown bigger and bigger, stretching the limits of the rules in place and potentially creating some safety concerns.

I've heard this before, and find it odd since mine is THE largest used, and has never changed in size and isn't even MAX dimensions. I know the gripe is that its hard to get past a shield even close to Max size, but that's the point in a game where weapons move like the wind because they are foam instead of live steel.
In a perfect holo-deck LARP world, the weapons would be the same weight as real weapons, as would the shields, but be entirely safe and this issue would be moot; at that point its just user strength and skill that would determine what can be used effectively. Since its not, and the weapons are heading slowly evolving into ultralight construction terrors; gripes about shield size, when the current rules leave PLEANTY of safe target area when the phys rep is used correctly, just makes no sense. It boils down to punishing the players that build and use them correctly, because the staff doesn't want to put in place what's needed to make sure the rest of the players, choosing to use them, all build and use them correctly and safely.


Knowing that people are variable sizes, we needed to maintain shield sizes based upon person size in some standardized way

FH already had a system in place, the only thing that system didn't have was the tagging system these rules introduced and a Safety Marshall to enforce that system.


, and we wanted to lessen the number of large shields in the game, whether that stretched realism or not

Is there a rationale for this besides quelling gripes from players about the above mentioned size and safety issue?


As mentioned, the name Use Shield will likely be changed to something like Strength Training which will allow characters to wield a shield (and may have other in game uses). Having that skill twice suggests increased strength, fully utilized when less encumbered, thus the increase in damage.

It also moves passive damage for rogues to a potential of three (when using daggers), and reduces the passive damage, OVERALL, of warriors, who are generally the only ones toting max shields, to one(even if they have a weapon focus. This essentially makes Weapon Focus, a master path or 40 point skill entirely useless to THE path that would use the skill the most. That's COMPLETELY backwards.


Sense Essenc is still being discussed. Do you have a suggestion as to how it should work?

Possibly, can you give examples of the kind of situations the skill was envisioned being used in?


Since the Magus is the main spellcasters in game, then they should get a bonus over other people casting spells--thus the durable components, though your concern is noted.

I agree they should have an advantage for that reason, but what may work better is maybe something like tripling the number of components you were planning to have spells need/use AND triple the number placed as loot and gatherable, then have this skill reduce the number needed for spells to likely...a third. This way they still have to expend them and therefore will need to restock.
I would suggest this skill also havening an addition to power a spell up if the Magus casts it with full required components.


Negate Magic replaces counterspell, yes. Since it will happen during a game break, we figured it could be a little clunky, but we are open to suggestions to make it less so.

First, making this replace Counter spell means only a magus or PCs with items will have access to it. Intentional?
Second, after re reading the skill functions, the best verbals are likely either "Counter" and "Lash Resist", based on which is used. It may take a few uses of the lash resist before a mid combat reminder is no longer needed, but that seems to be the simples and smoothest option that fits in the general FH system mechanics already in place.


The Essence Bolt gives you an instant 3 magic (5 if you have the boon). That doesn't seem weak to me.

I didn't say weak, I said weakened. The current rules are base 5 channel at basic level; 8 if you have the boon. New rules make it 3 or 5. That's a big drop for a path that has to wait 10 seconds to do the damage AND hit at range. Yes the new version is instant, but the reload is still the same 10 seconds. So what used to be 50 to 80 damage potential over a minute is now only 30 to 50. That's a 40% drop to get the advantage of not having to charge your first shot. Just seems to hobble the path, at low levels, that's is intended to be the cannon in combat.


There was a really good reason why administer works for both cure and restore but it's escaping me at the moment. I'll get back to you on that one.

Puts a pin in it.


Utilize resource was removed because personal upkeep was removed and would therefore be useless for the majority of sages.

I suggest at least offering it as a swap out for any that have been using it for wealth levels.


We have attempted to change magic up and have some magic related skills across paths, representing the idea that everyone is more attuned to magic.

My personal opinion is that it sounds like what they did in D&D 4th edition, and that wasn't all that popular. This is me voicing, of course, just my personal distaste for everyone-has-magic systems.


Battle tactics is being worked on to remove the clunkiness.

This seems to be just a Mass augment, so the only suggestions I can make is to remove the activation and have it automatically activate in the next combat OR have the sage hand out an activation phrase that the affected PC uses to activate the effect on themselves only.


Disenchant is the knowledge of how to suppress that magic, a more analytical study, if you will, which is why it is in sage.

Again, like disenchant, we see the magic item attunement more as a clearer understanding of magic. They might not be able to get as much raw power out of it but they understand it better on a more intellectual level. They can therefore get a little more out of it, are a little more efficient with it, if you will.

Well the GMs can obviously set the physics of the game world to function as they like, and then rationalize skills (as that's not a real task for the creative mind); but it still seems more like stretching an explanation to simply add "cool" skills that were seen as needed to spice up the path, but don't fit the path paradigm.


You might be right about imbued armor. With empaths having the ability to shatter armor and stagger combat reflexes and disease, we thought maybe the warrior should have a way to counter at least part of that, though the empath could start by scorching their essence, so it may be moot. We'll look at it.

I suggest a skill that allows the warrior to supercharge their combat reflexes (say 4 points per permanent essence lost for event duration), possibly even over the 45 max soak level, for a combat. This allows them to "replace" shattered armor (to a degree) in the short term as well as counter an essence burn. It also ads a holy crap this villain is tough option to the skill. Using a event long permanent essence lost will also limit the uses per event, and could possibly have other plot effects ("The guardian scans the heroes, reaching out to look for the essence that indicates life, and sensing none in the warrior, attack relentlessly!").


The removal of personal upkeep and income is to simplify the system

Seems to just diminish immersion of the in game reality, as the income part was made fairly simple by Phil; and personal upkeep had already been removed unless a player wanted wealth levels or skill enhancing gear (which should have upkeep).


We did increase the amount you could carry up to 10 and yes a class 1 just increases capacity to 15.

Better wording might be that the Class 1 increased a PCs capacity TO 15. Just seems clearer to me.
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Post Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:45 am

Re: New Rules Feedback

We'll discuss your concerns at our meeting tonight

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