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as to not derail feedback: Transfusion

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:52 am
by Ark
what I meant Marcus was that surgery should work were first aid does not, from -4 down. there is really no need to add another skill that really only works between 2 other skills just for the sake of having a third skill. you should be able to use surgery all the way till you need to use first aid. because as of right now getting someone out of -14 requires the use of 3 separate skills. . .that's a tad bit excessive.

Re: as to not derail feedback: Transfusion

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:32 am
by Zydana
ehh.. I'm okay with it. Triage from Paladin bumps first aid by one AND halves the time. Add a first aid kit to that and you heal 5. So surgery and the first aid/triage/first aid combo, you can bring someone from -15 to 0 in 90 seconds with the benefit of no chip draws.

Alright, so the use of 3 skills and an exotic item may be a bit excessive, but shouldn't being at -15 or lower? I suppose we could just use surgery on you next time your at -15 and have you draw those 5 chips.. ::smirk:: (I'm kidding of course).

But overall, the point is if a player wants to be REALLY good at something they are going to choose and stack skills that benefit them in that area where they wish to excel. (isn't that what we just did with personal income?)

Being beyond -10 should be super scary for any player. If we do something to make it easier to come back from -15 or even -20 or -30, then it will be most likely made easier for a player to get down to -30.

The use of transfusion, is another skill that helps the Healer in being proficient when helping someone in the negatives. It doesn't fall under the safety blanket of steady hands though. The addition of transfusion stopping bleed out times, might have made it a bit more powerful, but it made the advanced skill specialty not 100% useless.

Re: as to not derail feedback: Transfusion

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:44 am
by Ark
just to clarify I never found myself under the healers knife ^_^ but in an effort to try out the new rules made sure we had a healer (chelle) who also played Victoria at waypoint (a healer) needless to say she liked and bragged about that system more. I had a talk with some GM's about it, the idea of fear of death, fear of negs, it should be harder to heal, cheating, etc.

should it be harder to heal from negs then positive? of course

how much harder? debated

if its too easy there is no fear of death, side effect is we can have more deaths (not always a bad thing)

if its too hard we have more cheating (people don't want to drop into negs)

if its harder to heal from negs then it is to rez someone it becomes optimal to simply kill that person and rez them (this is currently the case within this current system from time to time)

there is also the case of when are people dropping into these negs? usually its accidental (person is at 2 life and hit with a 30 boom) as NPC's tend to not beat on people that are already in negs, if they need to go further they just killing blow. even in pvp negs are not an issue because good pvp needs to be as fast, quiet, and violent as possible. if you have to worry about people getting healed out of negs in your pvp plan, you are bad and should not try. but all of this can be looked at, tuned, and implemented without requiring 3 separate skills that I personally feel just eat up healer skill choice. once you pick all the skills you are almost required to have, there is very little room for what you want.

Re: as to not derail feedback: Transfusion

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:24 pm
by Ark
double post but I am the only one of mine that cares to post, so we discuss and I post :P

thought about expanding this into encompassing all of healer. as more so then most paths, healer is required. (empath too because rez is *still* split between two paths for who knows what reason. . .seriously what other game in the history of games has done that?) people are going to die, people are going to drop into negs, and some people will require awakening, as well as having poison and disease cured.

notice I didn't say healing? there are many ways to get self healing (healer dip for example, potions, etc.) and regen has stacking benefits that end up far outclassing healers in terms of healing provided. so what are healers required for? (PS: why was mass heal not just changed to a lash heal 1 instead of trying to achieve literally the same effect just much more complicated and super specific time requirements. . .really now)

-getting people out of deep negs
-cure poison
-cure disease
-the other half of resurrection (le SIGH)

btw its often not taken into account the fact that time is a huge resource to healers more so then life or essence points. for instance, a healer with improved healing can heal 3 life points in 30 seconds. . .hitting 1 person with poison that requires a healer to heal removes 30 life points worth of healing from the scene. multiple unresisted poisons or diseases multiply this amount. a warrior that selfishly uses hold ground effectively removes a healer from the scene through use of their skill because now they require a healer to heal them.

out of all the paths healer still requires going over and fixing. empath got fixed to be on par with rogue, warrior got improvements though not the ones it needed and in all honesty I could care less about warrior anymore, samurai has parry so it can rot for all I care :P sage finally feels incredibly unique and fun, jack is what it is, rogue got quality of life fixes and is fine now. I really cannot comment on magus because of the design of the path, I probably will never play one but the ones I see in game seem to enjoy themselves.

the charm was cool btw, transfusion is dumb, the spend permanent life to heal life does not belong on a path that tries desperately to avoid combat. increasing base heal by 1 was a cute gesture.

healers are not fun mechanically, they don't have terribly interesting skills, they don't steal the spotlight as much as front line fighters, or stop and do dramatic scenes like a magus, and the things they do they don't do terribly well, they are just the only one that does them.

so why is it that when people finally play a healer they never quit? why do people play the path at all?

because healers are the most psychologically rewarding path to play, they are required, they are called upon, they are needed, and people shout "healer!" it plays upon a part of the human brain, its very nice to have people specifically need or require you. if you want that, play a healer.

Re: as to not derail feedback: Transfusion

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:20 am
by GM-Mike
Given the amount of deaths we've had at Final Haven over the past decade (and most of those were pvp) and given the infrequency of complaints we've had about the healer path (by far the least of any path--I can't even remember any before now), you're going to have a hard time convincing me they are underpowered. Don't get me wrong. You can certainly try. The path ahead is simply difficult! :D

Re: as to not derail feedback: Transfusion

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:35 am
by Ark
oh I know, and the only reason I never complained about them before now is I never had a reason to look at them (never played them or even built one for one of mine) and had my eyes fixed on bigger problems (rogue)

chelle also stated that healer was a natural thing for someone like her to play because she is small and wants to avoid combat, few paths allow her to do that.