Why? Insulting as it may be, deals like that have been made the world over for far less.
Over in Witchwood Hold, less than a year ago, I hear that several people were murdered to bring a single person back to life with their stolen essence and a magic tome.
Ask Abaddon over there about dark deals, he's knowledgeable of the dark arts and has certainly seen instances of it with the Red Tear. If that's not the case here, than I'm wrong- so be it, I'm not too proud to admit fault . But bloody notes hardly smack of sunshine and friendship and bunnies.
But I have never once said anything that would sound like his friends made a deal with something evil to bring him back, and frankly- to accuse me of that is just as ludicrous and insulting.
Now.... as for Paer'An. I don't know him from a hole in the wall. But here's the two things I see as someone who's been gone for a time and then come back into all of this. Even if he is truly the most innocent person in town, this is what I'm hearing from other people:
A. If one person can be so great, why are we bothering to do any work if at the end of the day we need to bow to them for saving us, regardless of how they treats people, while others remain true of heart but thankless? If I save an old man from a bandit but I threaten everyone constantly, should everyone be forced to thank me in the public square? No.
B. You can either cause, be a part of, or be accused of multiple crimes, but if at the end of the day you accomplish something for the greater good, you remain innocent because it all balances out.
Looking for Dallid
Moderator: Admin
Last edited by Marcus on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Evil always prevails when good people do nothing.
-All knight, every night.
-All knight, every night.
“The list was up here, Serith,” Dallid taps a finger against his temple, “and consisted of all immediate concerns of the time – lost children, missing people and items, and a gang war in addition to foes of Haven. All those concerns were addressed that night thanks to the exhaustive efforts of Paer’an, and hence consigned to history. How did Paer’an help resolve the gang war? I don’t recall the particulars, so cannot now assign him particular credit.”
“I know a little better what I did that night, so I would expect Paer’an would better recall what he did that night. Best put such questions to him when you get the chance.”
“As for decisions to be made regarding Paer’an – that is a personal issue. The official stance of Haven is that he is to be killed if caught within its borders. The official stance of Witchwood Hold has been in flux, but I understand it currently states that he should be killed on sight. My personal decision is that I will aid him as best I can. Lately that manifests as an effort to convince others not to kill him – but Paer’an, himself, has greatly undermined that effort.”
“Serith wishes to collect facts on Paer’an so that he may better make his decision regarding him. Admirable, and I truly wish I could be of more help.”
“No offense taken, Malachi. You spoke the truth and revealed important information that I failed to convey. I thank you for that.
“And, yes, Serith, Paer’an does pursue his own agenda – much of which he declines to discuss with me. Much of the previous year that involved the removal of a star from his head before it took his life. But it also involves discovering a way to the Valkin’vi’s home plane and defeating both Corbyn and the Master.”
Dallid arches an eyebrow at Marcus. “Relax because others are working hard? An odd statement - most unworthy of a knight, I would think. What point are you trying to make?”
“I know a little better what I did that night, so I would expect Paer’an would better recall what he did that night. Best put such questions to him when you get the chance.”
“As for decisions to be made regarding Paer’an – that is a personal issue. The official stance of Haven is that he is to be killed if caught within its borders. The official stance of Witchwood Hold has been in flux, but I understand it currently states that he should be killed on sight. My personal decision is that I will aid him as best I can. Lately that manifests as an effort to convince others not to kill him – but Paer’an, himself, has greatly undermined that effort.”
“Serith wishes to collect facts on Paer’an so that he may better make his decision regarding him. Admirable, and I truly wish I could be of more help.”
“No offense taken, Malachi. You spoke the truth and revealed important information that I failed to convey. I thank you for that.
“And, yes, Serith, Paer’an does pursue his own agenda – much of which he declines to discuss with me. Much of the previous year that involved the removal of a star from his head before it took his life. But it also involves discovering a way to the Valkin’vi’s home plane and defeating both Corbyn and the Master.”
Dallid arches an eyebrow at Marcus. “Relax because others are working hard? An odd statement - most unworthy of a knight, I would think. What point are you trying to make?”
Learn the past. Observe the present. Guide the future.
Marcus narrows his eyes at Dallid.
Excuse me, and what exactly makes me so unworthy a knight in your eyes?
Because I sarcastically relate that from your story that evidently you and Paer'An can take sole credit for saving the town, while everyone else got drunk and fat and refused to help? Because that's what it keeps sounding like, and I think they all might want to hear that.
If that's what you or anyone here truly think, then ask me for help sometime, and you might be surprised.
There is a difference between sarcasm and a resolved opinion.
Excuse me, and what exactly makes me so unworthy a knight in your eyes?
Because I sarcastically relate that from your story that evidently you and Paer'An can take sole credit for saving the town, while everyone else got drunk and fat and refused to help? Because that's what it keeps sounding like, and I think they all might want to hear that.
If that's what you or anyone here truly think, then ask me for help sometime, and you might be surprised.
There is a difference between sarcasm and a resolved opinion.
Last edited by Marcus on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
-Evil always prevails when good people do nothing.
-All knight, every night.
-All knight, every night.
-
Kaylan Chargeender
- Town Member
- Posts: 691
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:20 pm
*with a grunt of battle scarred bones, the flame bearded dwarf rises from his bedroll in the loft above and takes the few strides to the rail and leans over, clearing his throat softly while waiting for a polite pause in the discussion*
While not a resident here, I think my stance in front of your foes and support on such things as gathering the bodies at the academy and defense of the fort the night Zeira returned from the dead at least shows that on the rare occasion I speak about the issues of your lands, I do so with the best hopes for it in mind.
With that in mind I have to say, you lot seem to love to make the complex out of what only need be simple things. To elaborate, its not funny to threaten someones life for any reason. If one of your people think so little of the lives of others that threats on said life is seen as a joke or a jest. they are a real and serious threat to all of you and should be permanently dealt with.
To a lesser degree, acting like "ass" is also a threat to your future. It makes your leader look like a fool for tolerating it and undermines the reputation and honor of your people. Those are trade bars nearly the same value as gold and goods in times like these. Anyone that cant act civilized, should be made to live among the uncivilized and fend for themselves.
You also seem to debate much of what should be the decision of your leader. As I understand it you have all resolved the matter of whether she should retain leadership that was left in her charge by your queen. I would say all this talk about whether and why for should be done with her or its all just wasted breath, since the final decision, even if founded on the voices of her advisers, should be hers.
It seems wisest to just drag him before her if he wants to be re instated and make him prove his worth. If he in any way balks or tries to hold back anything in the way a horse trader tries to get the most for the least he is not even close to ready to function like a citizen. In a dwarven land he would be killed or banished without repeal for such gamesmanship in the face of redemption.
As for things I know more of, Malachi I was there when Zeira's body landed with a thud. I saw the note. No matter how pure and golden he or his intentions may be, that note would bring a gloom to the return of even the most noble and heroic champion of old. To say that to speak otherwise is ..."ludicrous and insulting" is simply foolish.
I will agree that it doesn't mean he himself made a pact of ill intention, he was after all...dead. But beings with such power and honorable character do not write notes in blood and sling bodies around like sacks of flour. And that is how he returned.
While not a resident here, I think my stance in front of your foes and support on such things as gathering the bodies at the academy and defense of the fort the night Zeira returned from the dead at least shows that on the rare occasion I speak about the issues of your lands, I do so with the best hopes for it in mind.
With that in mind I have to say, you lot seem to love to make the complex out of what only need be simple things. To elaborate, its not funny to threaten someones life for any reason. If one of your people think so little of the lives of others that threats on said life is seen as a joke or a jest. they are a real and serious threat to all of you and should be permanently dealt with.
To a lesser degree, acting like "ass" is also a threat to your future. It makes your leader look like a fool for tolerating it and undermines the reputation and honor of your people. Those are trade bars nearly the same value as gold and goods in times like these. Anyone that cant act civilized, should be made to live among the uncivilized and fend for themselves.
You also seem to debate much of what should be the decision of your leader. As I understand it you have all resolved the matter of whether she should retain leadership that was left in her charge by your queen. I would say all this talk about whether and why for should be done with her or its all just wasted breath, since the final decision, even if founded on the voices of her advisers, should be hers.
It seems wisest to just drag him before her if he wants to be re instated and make him prove his worth. If he in any way balks or tries to hold back anything in the way a horse trader tries to get the most for the least he is not even close to ready to function like a citizen. In a dwarven land he would be killed or banished without repeal for such gamesmanship in the face of redemption.
As for things I know more of, Malachi I was there when Zeira's body landed with a thud. I saw the note. No matter how pure and golden he or his intentions may be, that note would bring a gloom to the return of even the most noble and heroic champion of old. To say that to speak otherwise is ..."ludicrous and insulting" is simply foolish.
I will agree that it doesn't mean he himself made a pact of ill intention, he was after all...dead. But beings with such power and honorable character do not write notes in blood and sling bodies around like sacks of flour. And that is how he returned.
Sir Kaylan Chargeender
Knight of the Order of the Crimson Aegis
Knight of the Order of the Crimson Aegis
Dallid frowns. “I never said you were an unworthy knight. Nor that Paer’an and I can claim all credit for saving Haven. I have not come close to saying either.”
“Marcus, you have become alarmingly defensive and aggressive – the leaps of logic you have taken in your interpretations are, quite frankly, extreme. What troubles you?”
He looks briefly toward the dwarf. “Haven’s judgment of Paer’an is not the current subject of debate – not that it is beyond discussion. But currently that decision, as stated, still stands.”
“Marcus, you have become alarmingly defensive and aggressive – the leaps of logic you have taken in your interpretations are, quite frankly, extreme. What troubles you?”
He looks briefly toward the dwarf. “Haven’s judgment of Paer’an is not the current subject of debate – not that it is beyond discussion. But currently that decision, as stated, still stands.”
Learn the past. Observe the present. Guide the future.
Marcus speaks plainly and calmly.
Frankly, Dallid? I don't like coming back to my homeland to find that there's a guy out there that is not only described openly as an asshole and will likely threaten my life, however jokingly, if I question anything he does. Then in the same breath be told that no matter what ill he has done, I will likely owe him respect everyday for his selfless actions on the town's behalf, when it's likely that even were I to require it, I will never get any myself.
Oh, and he's also been causing trouble at the other place I offer my help. To the point that there is a kill on sight order against him for suspected murder. But I still owe him for his heroic self-sacrifice.
And yes, I am pretty defensive. Try seeing things from my point of view.
First of all, the very first time I come back to Haven since running broken and bloody, with women and children in tow from the Night of the Burning skulls, I hear there is a guy around who is just as secretive as Corbyn was before he killed everyone, plus he claims to be Corbyn's apprentice, however repentant he may be. You should try going back to that night sometime, and watch all your friends and neighbors cut down in front of you while your home burns, and be completely unable to help them.
Then Malachi tells me I am being ludicrous and insulting for offering an outsider's first impression on something that seems damned sinister.
Then you yourself tell me I a speaking things that are 'most unworthy of a Knight'. Something I worked every day for nearly four years to accomplish.
Yeah, I'll admit I'm no fancifully skilled word-smith, instead I'm young, brash, and I'm also kinda wondering whether anything actually changed since I left Far Reach.
Paer'An is the new Ingram- who just like that man we have to put up with no matter what because some people say so, and four years later, instead of undermining Esmerelda, it's the new leader that's the target.
Frankly, Dallid? I don't like coming back to my homeland to find that there's a guy out there that is not only described openly as an asshole and will likely threaten my life, however jokingly, if I question anything he does. Then in the same breath be told that no matter what ill he has done, I will likely owe him respect everyday for his selfless actions on the town's behalf, when it's likely that even were I to require it, I will never get any myself.
Oh, and he's also been causing trouble at the other place I offer my help. To the point that there is a kill on sight order against him for suspected murder. But I still owe him for his heroic self-sacrifice.
And yes, I am pretty defensive. Try seeing things from my point of view.
First of all, the very first time I come back to Haven since running broken and bloody, with women and children in tow from the Night of the Burning skulls, I hear there is a guy around who is just as secretive as Corbyn was before he killed everyone, plus he claims to be Corbyn's apprentice, however repentant he may be. You should try going back to that night sometime, and watch all your friends and neighbors cut down in front of you while your home burns, and be completely unable to help them.
Then Malachi tells me I am being ludicrous and insulting for offering an outsider's first impression on something that seems damned sinister.
Then you yourself tell me I a speaking things that are 'most unworthy of a Knight'. Something I worked every day for nearly four years to accomplish.
Yeah, I'll admit I'm no fancifully skilled word-smith, instead I'm young, brash, and I'm also kinda wondering whether anything actually changed since I left Far Reach.
Paer'An is the new Ingram- who just like that man we have to put up with no matter what because some people say so, and four years later, instead of undermining Esmerelda, it's the new leader that's the target.
Last edited by Marcus on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Evil always prevails when good people do nothing.
-All knight, every night.
-All knight, every night.
*Serith smiles at Marcus
"What has changed is you got older, brasher, and are actually now able to handle that Hammer of yours..."
*Serith face grows serious
"It seems that this is becoming more of a boiling point than I intended, but here is my plan, I am going to speak with Paer'an, and if he still cannot give me insight into what he is doing, then Ill have no choice but to offer my opinion that his banishment continues, but if he can start showing me that he isnt actively pursuing just selfish needs then it will go along ways in my eyes for starting his LONG path to redemption."
*Looks back to Marcus
"And trust me, just because he has done good, doesnt make up for the other things he has done, it takes more than one deed to redeem, but, and believe me I know, it only takes one to destroy, and well he would be on a VERY short leash if he were to be granted amnesty again."
"What has changed is you got older, brasher, and are actually now able to handle that Hammer of yours..."
*Serith face grows serious
"It seems that this is becoming more of a boiling point than I intended, but here is my plan, I am going to speak with Paer'an, and if he still cannot give me insight into what he is doing, then Ill have no choice but to offer my opinion that his banishment continues, but if he can start showing me that he isnt actively pursuing just selfish needs then it will go along ways in my eyes for starting his LONG path to redemption."
*Looks back to Marcus
"And trust me, just because he has done good, doesnt make up for the other things he has done, it takes more than one deed to redeem, but, and believe me I know, it only takes one to destroy, and well he would be on a VERY short leash if he were to be granted amnesty again."
Serith Darkheart
"I dont make Threats....Only Promises"
"I dont make Threats....Only Promises"
After it became clear he wasn't needed rothek crawled back to the roughed up mattress and few blankets he slept on by the stairs. The beastman also remained silent and listened to the discussion, all the while chewing on what looked like a deer's leg.
Even though the beast knew those gathered were merely speaking, he still let out a small chuff to help remind everyone of his position at the tipsy traveler when the discussion became tense.
Even though the beast knew those gathered were merely speaking, he still let out a small chuff to help remind everyone of his position at the tipsy traveler when the discussion became tense.
Rothek HowlingFang
Den-father of the Howling Fang tribe.
friend and ally of the dwarves of Killeshandra.
Den-father of the Howling Fang tribe.
friend and ally of the dwarves of Killeshandra.
Malachi takes a deep breath as if to retort, but remains silent for a moment. His response is calm
"Once again, I must apologize. I meant no offense Marcus. I assumed that you were insinuating those of us who had tried to get him back earlier in the evening, as well as placing my own hypothesis' as the only possible answer, rather than keeping an open mind."
"Once again, I must apologize. I meant no offense Marcus. I assumed that you were insinuating those of us who had tried to get him back earlier in the evening, as well as placing my own hypothesis' as the only possible answer, rather than keeping an open mind."
Malachi Vandire - Deceased
Solomon Feir
Scott Smith
Solomon Feir
Scott Smith
Marcus smiles amiably toward Malachi.
If that was what you took from that, than I apologize as well, Malachi. If he'll forgive me this (with a glance to Ziera):
Having only met his for a short time, I barely even know Zeira from any other person on the street, and after several years gone I have even less knowledge of who his friends around here might be, and that they -and I am assuming you, Malachi, are part of that group- had tried, unsuccessfully or not, to bring him back previous to his appearance. I would be disgusted if his friends would do evil to bring a friend back, and would never insinuate that, because I wouldn't want to believe it.
All I know of the situation is what I took at face value. Zeira, who the people at Witchwood Hold say was torn apart into complete nothingness inside some ancient machine more than a year ago, suddenly appears on the doorstep of Castle Gravesbane as if from thin air, fully about himself and his wits, with a bloody note pinned to his shirt, that I believe said "All debts are paid"- though you can correct me on that, as I never saw the note.
If Kaylan up there (he points to the dwarf up in the loft) thinks that's odd, too, then it's evidently more than just me that sees a worry in that.
As for Paer'An, as I have said before, for I will not judge a man I have know concrete knowledge of and have met only once at the Academy. Although my first impression certainly fits with the man's bad reputation, as he essentially told us that we are idiot children that don't know the doom facing us, and that he's the only man that can save us, though he refuses to say why or how. Probably because were we to stand and help him, then he can't taunt us.
But as a citizen of Haven, my thanks and gratitude is mine to give freely, not to owe, to Paer'An or anyone else. Hell, I never even wanted to talk about Paer'An in the first place! (he laughs)
If that was what you took from that, than I apologize as well, Malachi. If he'll forgive me this (with a glance to Ziera):
Having only met his for a short time, I barely even know Zeira from any other person on the street, and after several years gone I have even less knowledge of who his friends around here might be, and that they -and I am assuming you, Malachi, are part of that group- had tried, unsuccessfully or not, to bring him back previous to his appearance. I would be disgusted if his friends would do evil to bring a friend back, and would never insinuate that, because I wouldn't want to believe it.
All I know of the situation is what I took at face value. Zeira, who the people at Witchwood Hold say was torn apart into complete nothingness inside some ancient machine more than a year ago, suddenly appears on the doorstep of Castle Gravesbane as if from thin air, fully about himself and his wits, with a bloody note pinned to his shirt, that I believe said "All debts are paid"- though you can correct me on that, as I never saw the note.
If Kaylan up there (he points to the dwarf up in the loft) thinks that's odd, too, then it's evidently more than just me that sees a worry in that.
As for Paer'An, as I have said before, for I will not judge a man I have know concrete knowledge of and have met only once at the Academy. Although my first impression certainly fits with the man's bad reputation, as he essentially told us that we are idiot children that don't know the doom facing us, and that he's the only man that can save us, though he refuses to say why or how. Probably because were we to stand and help him, then he can't taunt us.
But as a citizen of Haven, my thanks and gratitude is mine to give freely, not to owe, to Paer'An or anyone else. Hell, I never even wanted to talk about Paer'An in the first place! (he laughs)
-Evil always prevails when good people do nothing.
-All knight, every night.
-All knight, every night.
-
BarrytheBartender
- New in Town
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:42 am
“I do see your point of view, Marcus, and I see the dilemma. Keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with respecting your enemies. Doing so might even be considered wise, for you are less likely to underestimate them.”
“I do not consider Paer’an *my* enemy, but I could not begrudge any who do. I just ask they be aware of the total situation. He cannot return to face judgement until such is so. Many of his ill deeds are well known – not so for his good. Serith knows this and started this conversation so he could better understand before making his own decision.”
“He should be granted gratitude for the good he has done. He should also answer to the evil he has committed. Should execution be his fate, I would hope the axe man says ‘Thank you for all the help you have given us, but your crimes cannot be forgiven’ before the final blow is delivered. “
Dallid considers for a moment. “’Paer’An is the new Ingram’. An apt assessment, indeed.”
“I do not consider Paer’an *my* enemy, but I could not begrudge any who do. I just ask they be aware of the total situation. He cannot return to face judgement until such is so. Many of his ill deeds are well known – not so for his good. Serith knows this and started this conversation so he could better understand before making his own decision.”
“He should be granted gratitude for the good he has done. He should also answer to the evil he has committed. Should execution be his fate, I would hope the axe man says ‘Thank you for all the help you have given us, but your crimes cannot be forgiven’ before the final blow is delivered. “
Dallid considers for a moment. “’Paer’An is the new Ingram’. An apt assessment, indeed.”
Learn the past. Observe the present. Guide the future.
Oh, I wouldn't call anyone in this town my enemy, at least until they threaten me with harm.
As for 'judgement', it sounds to me he's answered for any evils by being banished from Haven. Seems like his only real problem is the fact that he's also been kicked out of any other place he might rest comfortably for the same reasons. That doesn't mean that if he was lying bleeding before me I wouldn't give aid, though.
But at the same time I really am not liking that I come back home and find out that yet again the squeaky wheels are getting the grease. Much like Ingram, here we are talking all day about a guy who's a braggart and a thug, while there are certainly people out there that are doing their best but receiving no credit. It seems the best way to get noticed in Haven is to be trouble.
As for 'judgement', it sounds to me he's answered for any evils by being banished from Haven. Seems like his only real problem is the fact that he's also been kicked out of any other place he might rest comfortably for the same reasons. That doesn't mean that if he was lying bleeding before me I wouldn't give aid, though.
But at the same time I really am not liking that I come back home and find out that yet again the squeaky wheels are getting the grease. Much like Ingram, here we are talking all day about a guy who's a braggart and a thug, while there are certainly people out there that are doing their best but receiving no credit. It seems the best way to get noticed in Haven is to be trouble.
-Evil always prevails when good people do nothing.
-All knight, every night.
-All knight, every night.
