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Post Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:50 am

RE

True upkeep takes oil, the reason we would requir resourses is because we would assume you are damaging your armor each event. Sometimes you would pay more, sometimes you would pay less.

People like the bleeding out thing and that's cool, but is there a way we can rework the fighting in negatives thing and still make it effective? I really feel that tring to keep track of time while doing something else is too hard and can lead to accusations of cheating.

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Post Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:05 pm

Option of instead of warriors having a specified time while in negatives, they merely can continue crawling/fighting/fighting at +2 damage until they hit -10, at which point they begin bleeding to death and can no longer fight. Basically, they get an additional 10 hit point buffer before bleeding but still must heal up to 0 to avoid dying. It's a double edged sword since you need a surgeon on hand if you do that.

Then change the tsunataur to gains an additional 5 hit point buffer (ie a non warrior would go unconscious but not bleed from 0 to -4, and a warrior would have till -15) and the guild bonus to gains an additional -5 hit point buffer too.

Then obviously everyone would have one minute till they died. Granted you could leave Tsunataur and/or the guild bonus alone too. Might want to leave one alone and change the other. Suggest leaving the guild bonus since 5 hit point buffer for a whole guild would be awesome since how many things swing more than 1 and hit someone 5 times after they drop?

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Post Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:42 pm

I wouldn't mind the warriors being able to go until either a) they hit -10 or b) combat ends. My feeling is that if they do hit -10, they would fall unconcious and can only be healed by a surgeon and must draw at least one chip from the bag to survive. This will be more dramatic and will get that bag we all love so much into game more. Otherwise, warriors can last too long a time with too little a penalty and do too much damage. Just my feelings, but don't be surprised if they change tomorrow,
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Post Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:33 am

RE

There would definitly have to be a "till combat ends" component at which point the warrior looses 10 HP's so if the warrior took no additional damage they would be at 0. If they took 10 then they would be at negative 10.

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Post Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:43 am

Ok, basic repeat of what I had but a wee bit more refined:

Endurance/Berserk - all make it so the warrior is conscious and can either fight/fight at +2 till either he/she hits -10 life or combat ends. Afterwards, he/she can only use determination and begins bleeding to death. (This avoids people taking level 1 warrior to have an extra -10 nit point buffer)

Determination stays as is.

Tsunataur bonus is changed to:
will not bleed to death till -5 life, between 0 and -4, the Tsunataur is merely unconscious and will stay that way until healed. This bonus is added into berserk and endurance (ie must hit -15).

Leave guild bonus the same.

This way you could have a Tsunataur warrior running around till -15 life at 4 damage, and then having two minutes till he/she bleeds out, and then being unable to do so again for a half an hour. (Old rules had a tsunataur running around for 3 minutes swinging 4)

Not a big fan of the must draw a chip since, if you hit -10, you will probably go past it before all is said and done, so you are probably going to be drawing one anyway( if you are a tsunataur, it's almost garunteed). Plus, it'd just lead to hitting -9 and calling it quits to avoid that.
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Post Tue Oct 14, 2003 1:48 am

With my limited knowledge of the rules, I'd say that timed death is too central a concept to remove without some major re-writing. While not having a "bleed out" rule allows people to feel a bit more confident in performing heroic actions, I'd say that not having it might take away a portion of that on-the-edge danger that many people enjoy at FH.
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Post Tue Oct 14, 2003 1:54 am

Oh, and as for upkeep: I've always disliked it. but I recognize the necessity of keeping resources flowing and giving some realism to trade. I often disregard it in tabletop games in order to focus more sharply on plot and roleplaying, but in a LARP setting I think it is a necessity.

Also, if someone could give me a rundown on the whole "drawing a chip" thing, I'd be grateful.
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Post Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:56 am

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I like Eric's idea. It fixes the problem with the warrior and bleeding to death. It is simple. And no else would be effected.
i also agree with eric, I do not like the idea of drawing out a Chip out of the bag. Most likely the warrior willhave to do it anyway, but don't make it a requirement.
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Post Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:42 am

Donovan,

The drawing of a chip is part of the surgery skill. Surgery can automatically (with time) heal 10 hitpoints worth of negatives (ie up to zero), and if the victim is still below zero the surgeon may continue healing him (again with time) 1 hp per chip drawn out of said bag. The bag contains 9 chips of one color and 1 of another. If the victim draws the one chip they die, otherwise they heal 1 hp. Chips are not placed back in the bag until the surgery is over.
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Post Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:35 pm

I like the idea of having to draw from the bag, and the bag only has to contain at least 1 red chip (death), but can contain more by decreasing the white chips (1 hp). After all the warrior just performed a feat of extreme physical stress, they have just pushed their body well beyond where any mortal should.

I dislike the Tsunotaur having a 5 hp buffer where he is just unconcious, that is much too powerful for a race ability. In essence unless someone comes along and cuts the head off or otherwise mutilates the body, causing 5 pts of damage that person will live forever, especially combined with the regeneration guild skill. I don't mind them being able to go to -15 before dropping though it takes in that tough aspect without totally breaking the race.

I have a question about this whole thing, at what point would someone be considered dead then in the system as you propose it? 0 hp, if so then that changes the entire game completely and makes the warrior much much too powerful since they would be the only people in game that can live past that. As I said before a change in the system like this would have very wide ranging effects and would bascially require a rewrite or at least a looking over of the entire system to see where things would be affected. Not just the discplines and races that it may affect.
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Post Tue Oct 14, 2003 1:57 pm

The 15/30 minute recoup time is to account for the extreme stress. If that time is pulled, then I see no problem with drawing a chip, but there is no need to double dip. (pun fully intended)

The problem with the tsunataur ability is this. Allowing only the -15 thing isn't a race ability since it only benefits the warrior. It needs to be general, thus the 5 point unconsious buffer. Another concept is that from 0 to -4 is able to use determination as per the warrior skill.

As for when you die, that requires no change. Zero life is unconsious and -# is dying. Dead is -# and x minutes, same as always. Don't try to overthink it.
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Post Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:58 pm

Not overthinking anything just looking at the big picture as opposed to a narrow view. Death at 0 and unconciousness at 0 with a minute to get help is a huge difference. With what Chris is proposing there would be no more -# dying you would simply be dead with no count. You are overlooking his original post where he stated that his intention is to get rid of the count ebtirely because he doesn't like the fact that you count while fighting which only affects advanced or better warriors. Being the person that has lain on the ground at or below 0 more than anyone else in the game I can honestly say that making 0 death gives the warrior much too much of an advantage. Warriors would be essentially unstoppable at that point, especially with the proposed changes in thief skills. At that point any full path warrior in full armor, helm and a resist sleep could take out the entire town except warriors of course. At least with the bleed out time there is a chance that if you can get help you will live. Already having a huge advantage in the # of hit points they recieve coupled with an extra 10 hp's of life is really big. They are already the only ones that can save their own life if they are in negatives if they have a potion, every other class needs a healer to tend to them or someone to give them a potion. I haven't even begun to talk about armor and the advantage that only the warriors get in that. This change would make all of the changes to armor pretty much moot because the 10 or 12 pts that the max was reduced by would be given back but only to 1 class. Not to mention that every other class has a restriction on armor for at least 1 of its skills, while the warrior gets a bonus to his.

I'm not against this change perse, but I am just warning everyone that if you make a change like this without looking at the entire system it will cause way more problems than the 2 that it will fix.
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Post Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:23 pm

RE

I wanted to get rid of the count warriors make while they are fighting not while sitting around.

Right now the warrior gets 3 different skills that allow different actions while in negatives. It is my opinion that it is really hard to do an action and count at the same time. I was wondering if there is a way to allow warriors actions while in negatives and still have a count.

For example I can see giving a warrior 10 life when they hit negatives. You cannot use any skills at all except for swinging your weapon. You gain plus 2 damage though which is nice. At the end of the combat scene the warrior drops unconscience and looses 10HP's. If the warrior takes 10 damage while under this skill then they would be at negative 10 and unconscience.

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Post Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:03 pm

OK so you are saying that you want to give the warriors 10 HP when they hit negatives, so when they hit -1 they spawn back to 9 HP but can't use any of their skills. I still think this makes the warrior too powerful and it still counteracts the changes that were made to armor only this gives those 10 pts to 1 path as opposed to anyone that wears the armor. A combat can take a long time if there are alot of people involved in it. It may not make that much difference now with the few players that we have but when there are 50-70 players on the field like you would eventually like to have that "combat " could last an hour.
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Post Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:13 pm

RE

It does not have to be 10HP's. Right now we have it that you basically get 10 or 1 minute whichever comes first.

I really want to find a way that warriors dont have to count this 1 minute while fighting.

-Chris
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