Archived topics from the different rule forums.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:48 pm
Ok guys I do not have alot of time on this, but I think it is important.
We need to remove the entire concept of fake armor. This does not mean that we will not allow all types of armor, but it does mean we wont have two catagories.
I need a rule that can be used as a guideline so we can ad it to the book.
My thought is the rule would first need to describe looks. Basically armor needs to look like real armor no matter what material it is made up of.
Second, for fairness the catagory of the armor needs to be based on weight and/or encombrance. Let me use 3 examples.
1) Player is wearing chain looking cloth that actually looks close enough to real chain that we allow it to be used as armor. The reality though is the player is wearing cloth and it does not in anyway encomber the player. I would thus put this armor into the light armor catagory.
2) Player is wearing tacked together 10 guage metal that has peace symbols all over it using a variety of colorts. The armor is extreamly heavy and combersome. The materials used are even authentic to the time. The armor looks like a hippy wacked out on drugs exploded upon it. This armor would not even be allowed because it shoudl violate the "look" of the game.
3) Player is using industrial plastic that weighs about 15 pounds. It is loud, and combersome to wear. It is shaped and looks like real armor. I would give the armor the catagory of heavy.
What I need is a set of guidelines I can put in the book so I can get it voted on, passed. Those who will rule on the armor will be trained by looking at all the armor that was voted on previously which is why I need the pictures.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:21 pm
Here's my idea
1. Armor is determined by percentage of the body coverage, not including the head.
2. Armor must look in period, it does not matter material
3. Must use hard inflexible material (plastic, thick leather, metal) or metal rings (for chain mail) to be considered medium or heavy armor. The entire percentage covered must be out of this material
4. If using a flexible material (swead, furs, cloth, thin leather), you can not go higher than the light armor caegory no matter the percentag covered.
Percentage of the body covered minus the head
Light - 25%
Medium - 50%
Heavy - 75%
What do you think. It is the same idea for helmets I wrote up. Simple and straight forward
Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:26 pm
i like the simplicity, but what's the difference between medium and heavy?
I personally think (most people disagree)
light = cloth/ light leather
medium = heavy/reinforced leather
Heavy = metal. (i think light chain mails should till be heavy why? they look freaking great. I have no issue with some one wearing titanium or aluminum rings for heavy. It looks and sounds good, so who cares if they get better performance than plate.I wore plate for a year, so yah know.)
Last edited by cole45
on Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:27 pm
You are changing the system too much.
We already have a good rule for coverage.
You hint at a rule for encombrance when you talk about flexable vs inflexable materials. You do not talk about weight and I feel that too should be a consideration. An extreamly light, but inflexable material may not qualify for heavy.
Does anyone know of a person who's armor might qualify as light and inflexable?
Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:29 pm
I think that we need to have a pretty low requirement for light armor.
I think we shoud have a more strict requirement for heavy.
If a piece of armor is better than light, but not up the level o heavy then it is medium.
We need to vote on some picts though to see ifwe all agree,.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:50 pm
Travis, the only difference between medium and heavy is percentage covered.
I think I know what you are looking for, but have no clue how to put it into rules.
The question we have to ask ourselves is, do we want good looking armor, or people wearing heavy armor which is not fun for anyone. aka. the person wearing it and the people accendently hitting it with their body.
I personaly would like to put rules into place that reward people for making their armor look in period, and not really care if it is heavy and very combersome. My heavy leather armor is combersome and slows me down and restricts my movement, but it is not very heavy. But it looks in period and I hope it adds to the game.
And when we look at the bonus we are talking about, it is 3 armor points. It is not that big of a difference. That's why I like the percentage thing. The more armor, the better protection, but more movement restrictions and speed. So they balance each other out. You get more soak at the sake of speed and range.
And, my idea is simple and does not require to train a person to say if something is light, medium, or heavy. You just have to ask 2 questions, is the material flexible (yes/no), and how much of the body does it cover. You can create charts telling how much armor is typucaly required to reach a certain percentage to make life easier for everyone.
But, I'm not certian how to get what you want with out complex set of rules that might or might not add to the enjoyment of the game.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:27 pm
It does not matter what you say it still requires training because I guarentee your version of flexability and my version might not match. Also, % coverage might not match. How do I know? I know because we had coverage and it didnt work either.
In anycase we really do not have time to discuss a bunch of plans so I would love help with the idea I set forth, but if we cannot agree we will keep what we have and then I will work in that system.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:33 pm
Its either Heavy/thick/big
or its light/thin/dainty
Everything else is Medium
Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:46 pm
I might be over reacting, but it is occuring to me that we dont have time to change the armor system with an upcomming rule freeze so I am just going to with draw my request.
Instead I will work witht he gm's to develope a comprehensive armor FAQ.
Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:04 am
I only really have one comment here. Isn't the whole point of the game to be someone you normally couldn't be? I mean I'm not a warrior body type by any stretch of the imagination, but in the game I could be a valiant knight in resplendant armor. Unfortunatly I, like many of us. Do not have the strength or stamina of that type of person.
If, to get the full benefit of heavy armor I have to wear something that is too heavy for me to move around in my options become extremely limited. I fully understand your point here about encumberance, and even the need to be (to borrow a term from another form of gaming...) WYSIWYG, but can't we let a 90 lb. weakling be a 350 lb. pure muscle orcish knight by tweaking the rules in some other fashion? I know you're just trying to make things more fair and realistic, and I'm sure I'll like whatever you come up with, but I think you should take this point into consideration.
Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:12 am
I agree with Leif...
I know for one that I love the fact that I have played a Vailant (sp?) Knight wearing armor, and striding into battle fighting my enemies. I can tell you that if it wasnt for my fake pickle barrel plastic armor, I wouldnt have been able to do it...one I couldnt afford the "real" armor, and two my fat ass couldnt survive the weight and heat that "real" armor would cause/have. I can attest to the fact that even though my armor isnt all that heavy it is still an encumberance, it takes time to put on and take off, just ask all my "squires" and also it is loud and noisy, so it made being stealthy damn near impossible.
Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:14 am
When I was talking about weight I am talking in the area of 1-30 pounds. I am assuming you were thinking something a tad different.
Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:16 am
Very likely, being that i am pretty damn slow, but i dunno
Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:17 am
I'm just meaning if it stops me from fighting cause it's too heavy or bulky (which is more realistic totally) then I can't be a badass warrior lol.
Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:24 am
I wanted to remove the penalty for fake armor. I dont care if you wear pickle armor as long as pickle armor makes me think real armor when I look at you.
What I don't want in the game in people looking like crap so they can gain 13 armor points. I rather a person wear good garb and no armor and I just give them 13 armor points. Unfortunatly I cannot do that either because it is unfair to those who do wear armor, of what ever material, that looks good.
I know it was brought up that we do not have the "no armor" warrior build. Something with low soak, but gets say 5 resist effects. That might be cool. YOu cannot stand up to continual damage but you can dance around not taking any damage. That is a different discussion though.
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