List of Suggested Rule Changes


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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:44 pm

You don't penalize the prepared at all but you must realize you don't balance rules around the average player. You must balance to the maximum. That's pretty much mandatory.

As for Aiden's system, you need to read the whole thread apparently. No one was talking about your system. And even if we were, yu didn't have a surgery change there so the point would still stand even if we were.

And potions being a patch:
By forcing potions to be 30 seconds per, you've artificially created the 2 potion rule (4 for warriors, 6 for tsunotaur warriors) but then you also have first aid, surgery, extend life, so now you are into 12 potions in negatives. Now we also have mystic healers on this person who, with 12 potions a piece, are healing this person from -150... So we added a patch that didn't accomplish what it wanted to. So you patch Mystic heal so it only works once in negatives. Great. But we have to deal with the 12 potion issue. So we say it interrupts skills. Cool, but now you can only get one potion on a person since you never are right there. We say this is ok. Then someone comes up with a new skill that allows for a person to charge up a boom that heals X life. Wow, we all like this idea. Then, Joe with that skill heals Bob from -150 by himself... Crap, now we patch that skill too. Wait, we've been here before.

Now before any of this happened, we could have fixed the root bleeding to death system in the first place and not have to have dealt with any of that.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:47 pm

Eric it is already done. Read my post all is fixd lets all rejoice and be glad.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:58 pm

dier_cire wrote: And potions being a patch:
By forcing potions to be 30 seconds per, you've artificially created the 2 potion rule (4 for warriors, 6 for tsunotaur warriors) but then you also have first aid, surgery, extend life, so now you are into 12 potions in negatives. Now we also have mystic healers on this person who, with 12 potions a piece, are healing this person from -150... So we added a patch that didn't accomplish what it wanted to. So you patch Mystic heal so it only works once in negatives. Great. But we have to deal with the 12 potion issue. So we say it interrupts skills. Cool, but now you can only get one potion on a person since you never are right there. We say this is ok. Then someone comes up with a new skill that allows for a person to charge up a boom that heals X life. Wow, we all like this idea. Then, Joe with that skill heals Bob from -150 by himself... Crap, now we patch that skill too. Wait, we've been here before.


I'm talking about someone with Mystic Heal (Working the way it was BEFORE it was patched) using potions on themselves to heal someone else with the delay in between. And I'm talking any time someone uses a LP potion. Multiple people could still heal someone up by alternating, but it's unlikely you'd have more than two or three people with mystic heal at a time, so it's more feasible to do a combination of healing skills then multiple people with mystic heal anyway. It makes the forms of healing better than potions, with potions for support, which I think should be the case.

And I think usually we do cater to the midline, because otherwise everything would either be way too easy or way too hard.

Chris: Stop discussing? NEVAR!!! :twisted:
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:06 pm

Ahh, no....

That makes negatives = death.

If you are looking for minimual rule changes, use Reid's idea.

On a side note: no other disapline or equipment should out strip a Path. Yes that means nobody should be better than a master healer bring back a person in deep negatives.

The big issue with Reid's Idea was how bad it would be to rez some one.
One point of clarification, the chip you fail on is not counted towards your rez total.
Another idea Reid had, is there can be spells, potions, disaplines that can lower the chip draw when healing. 1 skill idea would be Tsnataur would not have to draw chips until -20, instead of -10. Also change rez to a base of 1 and than add on any negative life chips.

This still gives you 2 try's to be healed and can cut the chip draw alot
You can cut chip draws down by the new potion, spell, skill for healing. Than you can do the same for the rez process if you fail the negative heal process. The chip draw can easly get down to 1 from being at negative 100 life.

By switching negative damage over to rez chips, forces PC to try to heal deep neagtive characters instead of just killing them and rezing them.

Deep negatives are scary, but by being prepared and having the correct people around, you can over come them. To me, this adds drama.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:07 pm

Chris,

Maybe I'm missing something but wouldn't that mean that 90% of the time you'd die at -2? Now, if that option were pulled, and no potions were allowed, you'd be dead at -19 (since chips heal 1 and surgery heals 10). Add in potions between and you cap out at -64 (but this highly unlikely), with an average around -46. Pull that, but put in mystic heal and you are around -29. All together, you'd be at -74, with an average of -56.

But the whole time, chips are drawn either every 1 life or max of 7 life (with +6 from a potion). I never liked that about them originally.

Also, I still think my original one has less changes (2 of them, surgery and death and dying vs. yours which at a minimum is 3 those two, plus mystic heal) and is simplier to know how many when you are pulling chips.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:30 pm

Well when Chris and I talked about this on the phone, it was slightly different than the written version. In the version we discussed, the surgeon only had to get the player to -9, at which point other people could assist as normal (though the healer had to be present for the whole thing).

While the get hit in negatives thing was brought up, I took it as a joke then and still take it as a joke now.

A mystic healer surgeon could not be aided by others via potions or anything.

Basically, we are taking Reid's idea and eliminating the chip draw every 10 points thing, and then adding in the caveat about the mystic surgeon.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:46 pm

Ovak Stonecrusher wrote:Basically, we are taking Reid's idea and eliminating the chip draw every 10 points thing, and then adding in the caveat about the mystic surgeon.


Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing it written out, I'm pretty sure I liked Reid's suggestion without the chip-draw part, but there were a lot of suggestions here, so I could be wrong, hehe.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:58 pm

I have 1 change with some optional changes listed depending on how leathal you want to make it.

On a side note: no other disapline or equipment should out strip a Path. Yes that means nobody should be better than a master healer bring back a person in deep negatives.

Where in the entire world did this come from since it is not what I wrote. Since only a person with surgery can do ANYTHING after -10 the healer is the only person who can do something.

The chip draw can easly get down to 1 from being at negative 100 life.


Here is the crutch of my issue with this entire thread. You propose a rule change that we have been talking about for 10 pages because people do not fear deep negatives. You want to make a change, when every year people complain that we made changes, then turn around and tell me after said change it will still be easy to come back from -100. It does not seem to me that you are proposing fixing anything.

By switching negative damage over to rez chips, forces PC to try to heal deep neagtive characters instead of just killing them and rezing them.

This is a rorally stupid start. I mean who would just allow a person to die so now thy can have only 1 chance at success instead of two. You just increased the chance of perma death with that mind set.

What is the issue by saying at X life, currently x= -10 you must use surgery. It is by far the easiest rule EVER since it only adds 1 rule to death and dieing section.

Mike is correct that we were going to have it so surgery only needed to heal to -9, but I removed it because that makes it -19 before you need to worry about negs. According to our poll this happens so little that this change does Zero, nadda to make negs more scary which, as I understand it, was the entire purpose for the change.

This way you can be healed from -10 wihtout a chip draw.
If we keep the rule that allows 1 potion between chip draws then you can heal to -15 with a 10% chance of death. If you have 3 surgens working together you can heal to -25 with a 10% chance of death.

Then it is a 10%+ (it is not a linear progresion) increase of death for each additonal 15 you want to heal.

This is infact a simplier rule. We do not combine a bunch of different things since the only person who needs to know anything about -10 or greater life is the surgen.

It is nearly identical to Reid except we elliminate nutso -100 healing which honestly should not happen and in reality does not do a thing to solve anyhting.
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Post Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:36 am

Update Chris idea to make no so deadly

-1 to -9 anyone can heal no matter what

Once at
-10+ only the surgery skill can be used as it is written. Must heal the person to -9 or higher to be able to use any other healing skill.

Aka, the person is at -22, a surgeon is need to heal the person. The surgeon uses surgery to heal them to -12. Than the victim draws a chip to heal 1 life, and the surgeon give's them a potion to heal them to -9. After that the surgeon can perform first aid and use potions on the person to heal them up to 0. This allows a master healer to heal a person in simi deep neagtives by themselves with some potions and still be able to use all their skills. But it forces the person still to draw chips.

A couple additonal changes that are optional:

1) Allow no potions to be used while using surgery (I honestly kind of like this option)
2) Allow 1 potion to be used between chip draws.
3) Mysic Heal combo: If you have the surgery skill and mystic heal you may use your mystic heal ability while performing surgery. This would allow a mystic healer to use hero points and mystic heal to be a super duper healer. I kinda of like this. Escellapion anyone..
4) We could say first aid will heal to -5. Why? Because it would not be usable in combination with surgery anymore and well half critical death seems first aidy to me.

This makes negatives not as deadly, allows the healer to use all their skills to save some one, I think it fixes the healing break. It does put a cap on how much damage a person can take in negatives also, so the -100 would mean death.

You still will run into stituations that where it would be easier and less costly to kill a person and than just rez them. I find this chessy, but .....
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Post Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:34 am

You ever feel we are not communicating.


Any change that makes it easy to come back from -20+ is not deadly. It does not make people fear negs anymore than they do now. It is not worth an edit to the book.

If any idea has that as the change then I am against it. I rather remove the other "patches" in place. Add a 5 count to drink a potion. I might want to add that in anyways which fixes every loophole as well.
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Post Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:16 am

I guess I do not understand why you want a rule change.

If the reason for the rule change is to remove the 2 potion rule. I agree, and I believe this can be accomplished by inacting a 5 second count to drink a potion. No matter what happens I strongly believe this needs to happen because no one reads potion tags. I have seen you Aaron rip the top off 5-10 vials at night and pour them down the throat od someone. I also believe that all potion drinking should continue the count of the person. Each mystic heal should increase the death count 5 seconds. Why? Well if you are mystic healing then that is what you are doing. This takes care of issues as well.


Now if the goal is to make things scary then no suggestion except Wayn's and Nicholson Bros inc
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Post Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:03 am

That is interesting Chris, becasue I have never ripped tags, and rarely use potions. If I do, pull out my potin vial, open the cork and than dump it down a person throat or my own.

How many ways do Eric and I have to tell you, the primary reason for the rule change is to fix the break in current negative rules. Fix it and get rid of the patchs. making it more danergeous in negatives is a secondary effect.

It's your game and can do what you want, but if you make it to dangerous in negatives, nobody will want to come and play becasue of fear of certian death.

Saying it takes a 5 count to drink a potion does nothing to stop people from healing all the negative life with potions, which you hated when it was done when the game started. A well orginzed team does not to fear negtives with such a rule. I like the 5ct rule for potions but was shot down when it was brought up before.

But the way you have it written up, nobody willgo into combat becasuse of fear of certian death when going into negtives.

I'm surprised nobody else has commented how deadly your idea is.
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Post Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:18 am

Saying it takes a 5 count to drink a potion does nothing to stop people from healing all the negative life with potions, which you hated when it was done when the game started. A well orginzed team does not to fear negtives with such a rule. I like the 5ct rule for potions but was shot down when it was brought up before.


A potion count absolutly limits the amount of life you can heal. Lets say a person was at 50 seconds on their count when a healer gets to them. Well if every mystic heal or potion adds 5 seconds to the count then they die after two drinks.


How many ways do Eric and I have to tell you, the primary reason for the rule change is to fix the break in current negative rules.

How many ways do I have to explain it to you that if most people who fall into negatives never go less than negative 19 then any rule that makes it easy to come bcak from neg 19 is esentially not changing anything.

Let me put it another way. Lets say our rules were written to say. "if you fall into negatives then a healer can heal 1 point every minute."

There is no bleeding to death no max number.

You came along and said we need to change the rule. You proposed a cap saying it takes 1 minute per point up to -20 and then 5 minutes per point after -20. You wanted the change because of we created a skill that bipassed the first -15 making it too quick to come back from deep negatives, but you liked the rule for those that never reach -20.

Ok then we run a poll and find out that it is VERY VERY rare for anyone to get be in the -20 to -100 group. So rare I must ask myself why is a rule change nessissary for the .000001% of the time someone may b on that catagory.
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Post Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:44 am

The 5 sec potion rule allows a negative heal range with a potion from 1 to 576 life to healed using potions with out the need of drwing a chip. You just landed back to first year of FH where the NPC did not like how PC's where healing all the negtives with potions.

As for the poll, it means nothing becasue you only have a small percentage of the player base taking the poll, so you are not getting a full pitcure.

Eric has been past negtive -19 4-5 times, I have been past -19 2-3 times. last event, we had at least 2 people that I know of past -19. It happens on a regular bases. I was dropped to -12 3 times last event from booms.

I understand what you are trying to say, but your staticaly anyalisis is flawed. Ask Mike, he will tell you the poll just gives an idea of the players that are posting. Might I mind you, most of the players on the board are non warriors/non combat personal.
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Post Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:53 am

We are arguing caps.

you want the cap to be -20 before a chip draw

I would like the cap to be more like neg 10

I understand that we use to get upset but the more I think of it why the heck do I care if you bring a dude back from negative 500. Anyways your math is wrong based on what I said with potions.

The question is what is the average negative people find themselves in. If the average number is -10 to -19 then there is no reason to put the cap at 19.

According to the poll we have a 1.6 times an event a person will drop to past -20

Im just saying at the moment those numbers do not make me care.
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