List of Suggested Rule Changes


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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:57 pm

im still trying to get around this leathality thing.

The entire argument is that negs are not scary. Lets wait for the poll.

if we end up with a poll where people only get over neg 19 10-30% of the time they your system is a change to make it scary for that 30% which is not worth it.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:01 pm

The tsunotaur and endurance deal is actually just an adjustment based on the extended bleed out time. You still bleed like anyone else, you just are less at risk of death when someone finally gets to you (ie you won't die of shock as they are stuffing your intestines back in). Just an idea, and something for people to think on.

And no a warrior can't heal themselves out of -19 (actually it's -18 anyway as 9 + 10 = 19 which is the first chip draw). A warrior could heal themselves from -9. A surgeon could heal him out of -18 with 8 extra life from potions, spells, or skills, but that isn't any different than now. It only changes the deep negatives.

As for why, it's a combination of Wayne's and my ideas. Honestly, you could change the cap from -100 to -50 if you like. That's kinda the point I keep trying to drive home. The numbers are adjustable.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:08 pm

Chris, you've missed the point of the system entirely.

Lethality is secondary. Primary is fixing the crap about which skills heal negatives and removing the two potion limit. This system caps that at -9 (which is say 70% of the time). In addition, it says that if you are in deep negatives (10%) then you are drawing chips. The other 20% is surgeon only without chips.

Now if you want to increase leathality, you can move the chip draw back up to -10, which is the way I had it before... (again, the system is fully customizable to increase or decrease lethality)
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:15 pm

lets get rid of the two potion limit and not make any cap and keep everything the way it is.

Lets not make any special rules for mystic healing.

Now, what is the problem witht he syetm? It started out with "No one fears death"

The entire point is no one fears death and no one fears negs.

I want to see what the poll says. Eric, I know you have never been over neg 19 life so you can answer :)

Aaron you have never had more than neg 19 and lived have you?
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:44 pm

never been over -19? lol. You alone put me below -19 like the 3rd event with two 30 magics back to back. :P

With what you proposed just now is exactly as it is now, since mystic healing already bypasses the 2 potion rule. Say we remove mystic heal. Now, big negatives are harder to recover from. Add in no potion limit. Big negatives are easy again. So the problem isn't one or the other but the hole in the base system. This fixes that hole. The chip thing is to increase drama that the bag brings and to make people be less careless. This is secondary.

Now, ok, also, no one fears big negatives. True but that is due to the hole in the system. We fixed that and thus fixed the lack of fear. You get two for the price of one. But the lack of fear is secondary to the issue of preventing future skills from breaking the system.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:04 pm

but the question is: Is this hole in the rules even an issue

I mean if no one, or few people, are rarely past neg 19 then we are adding a rule change to correct an issue that is not as rampid as you currently think it is.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:15 pm

Rampant or not, it's still annoying since you were going to patch the skill to cover the problem up again anyway. If it isn't an issue, why even patch the skill?
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:18 pm

General Maximus wrote: But, I would want all potions physrepped than to prevent chesse


This is a side note, but if we want to require physreps for potions (I'm all for it), I want to see phys-reps for brewing too, since I consider it cheese that you don't have to represent the process at all and can technically carry around brewing potions. >.< Potions should not be transportable until they are at the end of their brewing time. I'm not asking for a phys-rep'd lab, but an 8x11 envelope with BREWING written on the front that was required to be in the open (A fireplace, A stove, A counter, A stump, eg, but not under a bed, carried in a backpack or hidden under a rock) would be more than acceptable.

Also remember that it takes time to brew a potion. The more potions people are burning through, it takes time to replace them. I have no idea what people are playing this year, but the major potion makers (who spent their whole events making potions) died last year.

I didn't have a problem with Mystic Healing and the potion thing, really, because of this reason: You have to be a healer-druid (Or Paladin, it works the same way) to do it, so it requires a specific combo and you burn through potions fast, so it's not always feasible. I finished out last year having burned through my ENTIRE stock of healing potions second to last event with just a few left over for the finale (Which were given to me towards the end of that event).

Here is my suggestion, if Mystic Heal/Potions needs to be fixed: Make a time limit use between taking healing potions, like 30 seconds or something, if you take one before then, it's not effective. You can take the cap out and there is still a risk of death/bleeding out. Also, you could say that Mystic Heal does NOT stop the bleed out time when in negatives, unless a second person is using extend life. This means it takes multiple people to heal someone who is critically injured, which makes sense. Both of these would be easy to implement, I think?
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:23 pm

Just so everyone knows we hear you on the suggestion for physrepping everything
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:25 pm

What I'm most impressed about is not the many good ideas that have come up here (which there have been), or the passion with which people write on this issue (though they do), or even the amount people obviously care about the system as a whole (which you all obviously do). No, what I am most impressed with is the fact that Heidi manages to work in her potion brewing rant into every conversation :lol:

(just teasing of course)
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:31 pm

lol, Mike!

only one issue with that. What do you do the next time a healing skill enters the game? You will revisit this same issue. It's an absolute gaurentee. Not sure how far we can look back but this isn't the first time healing rules have changed due to unexpected combos. Mystic Heal is just the newest in a long series of patches.

Making potions take 30 seconds would be just another patch to the system. Why not fix the real problem instead?

I see this same same thing all the time in my job. Most people will spend tonnes of money over time patching holes in a faulty system, when buying a better designed system originally would have prevented the issues in the first place.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:35 pm

Ok, I have not had the chance to read through the 10 whole pages here, but I would like to just post a couple things i saw on the first page when dealing with the Death/Dying Suggestion I had made..

I agree that with my proposed system you do have less to worry about when talking about -100 and the like.. since it would not exist.. but I also could tell that some people were either ignoring or didn't read the whole idea..

For instance it was brought up that you could run in at 1 or 2 life, take a bunch of hits and play human shield and then just be healed right up with first aid.. which would not be true.. by the rules I posted as soon as you go into "negatives'.. each hit you take brings you one step closer to dying.. making it harder to heal.. now I was thinking and maybe to make it a little scarier.. add into the "Dying" level (and Surgery) that it takes either "Surgery" for 3 minutes or the new "mstic heal" ability to bring you back to 0..

And if you say that is easy, then you have not been in the battles I have been in.. cause I rarely find 3 minutes, uniteruppted to heal someone.. and since if people are not careful you could very easily find many people at that level of hurt very quickly.

It seems a lot of Aarons ideas are all equipped with Master healers with a lot of potions.. which at least in my experience is the exception, not the rule.. and if you do have a group with a couple good healers and some potions.. why should it not be easier to save you wounded friends and save the day.. the victory should go to the prepared.. we should not be punishing it?
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:38 pm

Just as an aside, why wouldn't you be able to brew potions under a bed? All you'd need is a small controllable flame and a bed hig enough to put a container and something to hold it under. Some of the potions even say you need to bury the mixture, so why can't those go under a rock?
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:18 pm

Peace420 wrote:Just as an aside, why wouldn't you be able to brew potions under a bed? All you'd need is a small controllable flame and a bed hig enough to put a container and something to hold it under. Some of the potions even say you need to bury the mixture, so why can't those go under a rock?


Ok, I want to see someone using an open flame under their bed next game then to see how safe it is :lol:

I said it in the other thread related to this, but Alchemy SHOULD be a noticeable process either by sight, sound or smell (All of which are hard to phys-rep except sight) and not an easily hidden process. If you want to brew out in a shack in the woods where you have less chance of being discovered, I'm cool with that, but if I come in, I should be able to tell what you are doing in there. Your other option would be to be a master scout and use a Haven.

And I'd be ok with allowing someone to carry around brewing potions as long as getting hit would destroy the process or cause the potions to cause damage to the carrier and require the whole thing to be restarted.

The parts of the brewing process described are for flavor, like the ingredients (Aside from mystic components), even in the gathering phase, most people don't actually go anywhere. They should, but nothing requires them to. In theory, you can play it any way you want to. Realistically, most people are going to do it in a way that penalizes them the least. I just believe that if potions need to be physrepped, so does the process.

Mike: :twisted: I didn't start it this time!!!

On topic: I'm not sure how adding a cooldown between LP potions would be a patch? It's present in most games I've played and feels less artificial than "You can only take two potions while in negatives."

I'm also with Phil. Why penalize people who come prepared? Like I said above, I don't think we'll even have as many potions floating around this year as we have in the past. Hanna and Sen were the big suppliers and they are both kaput. New potionmakers will have to start from scratch with recipes and the like.
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Post Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:36 pm

Ok we really wanted 10 pages of discussion before the Nicholson Bros INC came up with a super duper combo wonderful system that is so easy you will all freak.

-1 to -9 anyone can heal no matter what

Once at
-10+ only the surgery skill can be used as it is written. The patient must be brought to 0 at the end of surgery or the patient is dead.

A couple additonal changes that are optional:

1) Allow no potions to be used while using surgery (I honestly kind of like this option)
2) Allow 1 potion to be used between chip draws. This would allow a person to avoid a chip draw up to -14
3) Mysic Heal combo: If you have the surgery skill and mystic heal you may use your mystic heal ability while performing surgery. This would allow a mystic healer to use hero points and mystic heal to be a super duper healer. I kinda of like this. Escellapion anyone..
4) We could say first aid will heal to -5. Why? Because it would not be usable in combination with surgery anymore and well half critical death seems first aidy to me. :)
5) If you take damages if you are in negs you die. :)


This closes the loop hole, makes te healer the most important, and has the least amount of rule changes.

BOOOYAAAA
Chris
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