Sage Hint - > NPC Camp

[Wyrmwrath]

3) yelling BINGO instead of GAME STOP

I was going to suggest "DUDE!" but with some people thats a game stop every sentence...

WHERE DID YOU GET A COPY OF THE WINTERHAVEN ADGENDA?

*points at a finger at Matt and makes rat type squeeling noises*

[NewGuy]

3) yelling BINGO instead of GAME STOP

I was going to suggest "DUDE!" but with some people thats a game stop every sentence...

How about YAHTZEE!!

also, what about a game stop just because you are about to die (OOG) from holding in laughter, but can't break character to do so?

[gingerswenson]

oh oh oh. Don't tell Leif (Ren) but can I be one of the strippers?

[WayneO42]

You'll have to try out..I run the auditions

Edit: Oh, and Brian, the answer is no

[Kalphoenix]

I appreciate the attempt to bring a little humor into a slightly tense conversation. That being said, I think that a LOT of great ideas have been thrown out to solve this sage dilemma.

I agree that sages aren't necessarily omniscient, but by saying sages HAVE to go somewhere, IC to pick up their sage-hints (The NPC village idea), you are understandably limiting the concepts available to them. Now, however, saying that sages need to go to where said plot-hint item is to get more specific insight as sage hints seems more than reasonable and does not really restrict any sage concepts. It also serves to get sages more involved and the beefier types to make sure they send proper protection for said sages. I think some of the frustration involved in sages on combat plots is that the combat types get impatient while waiting for the sages to finish and then everything goes to hell (Of course, this happens with healers too) and it occurs more in an OOC fashion than an IC one. I've seen less and less sages go on plots that will likely contain combat and I am interested in knowing why?

Is it an IC thing? For examples: Your character is old and doesn't want to go. Your character doesn't like the PCs on the plot. Your PC doesn't care about the plot. Your PC is afraid that the other PCs can't protect them.

Is it an OOC thing? For examples: You don't like to get involved in combat. Sage hints aren't useful enough to warrant the risk vs your character getting killed. You don't like other players on the plot. You know it's going to be a deathtrap. You know the reward isn't going to be worth it. You feel that people are more in-character back at the inn/lodge than at a combat scene.

In the future, I would like it to be standard practice for groups to want to bring sages (or at least one), just like it it's generally standard practice for them to bring healers. It shouldn't feel artificial though, just as sages leaving an area to go get sage-hints shouldn't feel artificial.

Lack of armor penalties for basic abilities (The mimic ability STILL has armor restrictions as per each ability) does not a warrior make and hearing that sages are one of the best fighter-types (Based on their lack of armor restriction, dependent on other discipline abilities and their mimicked one, 1 point of bonus armor, no damaging augment skills and a 1 point knockout ability) makes me cringe. I'm not saying sages can't fight and survive or do as well as any class, but saying they are the second-best path equipped to fight is a far stretch from the truth.

Now, I'm also not saying that combat shouldn't be part of the game, in any roleplaying game, it absolutely should be and I think people are misinterpreting me here. I just don't think people handle it in a very IC way and it devolves into a stick-jock party, which I abhor. Also, it's reasonable for people's characters to want to avoid combat, because most people DON'T want to get hit/hurt, but people forget this is a roleplaying game, not a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game where nothing bad happens when you die, you just pick up where you left off. I think a lot of characters have rerolled as sages or "homefront" type disciplines (Or concepts) like crafters and alchemists because it puts them in a position with other like-minded people who are more interested in roleplaying their characters than bitching because nothing to kill is falling in their laps. Now, I will admit, to some degree, combat takes away from roleplaying, because there are folks who can paint a nice picture when roleplaying, but don't have the athleticism can't fight worth crap. This can bring people out of the game as well by reminding them that they can't fight, they can't even run away if things go bad, it's no longer a fantasy or a roleplaying game. You are restricted by your OWN abilities. Now, I personally am trying to remedy my own lack of skills, but in the meantime, if I choose to play characters who don't have a huge vested interest in most combat plots, I think that's valid.

However, I am also not one of the people wandering around saying I am bored at an event either, I have great IC interactions with other PCs and great IC interactions with NPCs. But for the people who don't really like to roleplay, remember that this isn't disneyland where we are (as paying players) getting paid to put on a show for you. Every person who lowers the bar, be it props, anachronisms, roleplaying or whatever is bringing it down for everyone. I try to tell myself that everytime I open my mouth and sometimes I fail.

If folks are in that much of a pinch with the burning need to fight something, go wander by NPC camp. I'm sure they will be happy to oblige you. When the roleplayers feel bored, we turn to each other and have great moments, which is why you generally hear LESS from the roleplayers regarding an event.

[GM_Chris]

I could actually see removing the armor restriction on Mimic. That would actually be a very good idea.

[Wyrmwrath]

Edit: Oh, and Brian, the answer is no

HA ...i knew you would wuss out so I arranged a try out with Mike, at least HE seemed excited!!!

[dier_cire]

Sorry to tell you but sages overall are the second best when it comes to combat. A sage knight is a pretty nice combo. They can use all their skills and can mimic for more life/armor to be a number tank. Or switch to defense and grab press, Man at Arms or Tribal Protector. Then use your 2nd level to grab resist fear if you need it, or more life/armor, healing etc.

Just because all the current sages dress in frilly clothes and can't fight says nothing for the path. Arthos was a sage and had more life and armor than some of the warriors in town. But that was because he built him as a warrior but with Sage as his path.

Also, what's this about sages not going on plots? I have had a sage on pretty much every plot I've been on for the last few years. I don't leave Haven without one.

[Atrum Draconus]

Yep I agree with Ried once again. Like I said earlier, because most people choose not to use the sages combat skills they are given and can get doesn't mean the sage is not good for fighting. I know sage didn't have an armor restriction before. Actually Chris and I used to talk about sages walking around in full plate and how cool that would be. But even so, the sages are the ONLY path that gets any type of defensive bonus and all the other paths have armor restrictions as well. 1 knockout is usually all you need, if 3 is going to be effective then 1 usually will be too.

And I always try and make sure there's a healer, a sage and an empath when we go somewhere.

And I have to say, you are always limited by your own abilities, and even more so in a no combat role playing scenario. There are skills to compensate for not being a good OOG fighter. The hint skill(s) are the ONLY skill(s) in the game that compensate for the mental\sociological part of the game. If you aren't a quick witted, everyone's friend type, there is no skill to make PC's like you or to make you a silver tongued devil. Getting levels will somewhat do it with NPC's, even then it's not really a direct corrolation thing.

remember that this isn't disneyland where we are (as paying players) getting paid to put on a show for you

Exactly.

[GM_Chris]

Oh and remember that the sage can mimic for 3 then add in their 1 for a total of 4 knockout which will take out a dude in light armor. Get a sap and you can do 6 which means you can get a person in medium or just walking around with combat reflexes. Oh and that is 6 points really quick it being a first level skill.

[Eilonwy]

As a few people can attest, the frilly sage isn't as squishy as they look... not tank material, but not too squishy... Yes, Sage and Knight is a nice combo, indeed. The phys-rep does need more staff lessons, however, since dual-wielding is their usual fave...

[GM_Chris]

FYI we already have a bunch of things written up. I think the sages and GM's are going to like this ALOT better, but we will see after the test.

Here is what will happen.

We will give out a random page of lore to each person who has the hints skill. This page could be a short story, it could be a few shorter hints, it could be a puzzle in and of itself. In any case it will all be relevant to the event in some way even if you do not know. You can RP how you got the info any way you would like. For example, you could have recieved a vision or found something ina book that caught your eye. If you choose to keep the paper then it is considered in-game. Meaning, if you do not want it in game throw it away.

Each person with the hints skill gets 1 page, if you count as 2 sages then you would recieve 2 pages. If you have some other ability you will recieve more.

First come first served.

Wilderness survival will work the same way.

You will not be able to ask a hint on anything you recieve.

During the game you will only be able to use the hint skill if you are on a plot with a GM. If an object/puzzle falls in your lap from a plot. You will need to go in game to NPC camp to find your hints about the puzzle.

Should be good though. We have some good stuff written up. If all goes well you will have far fewer journies to NPC camp.

[GM-Mike]

And by wilderness survival Chris of course means the Scout skill. Wilderness survival will continue to give you resources as normal

[Atrum Draconus]

Now that way, I don't like at all. It puts the info for plots in one persons hands and doesn't give any one else in the game any chance to get any other info on it after that.

What if 2 sages show up to an event, of all the plots run for an event we will only get 2 hints on any of them except for items that are found IG?

[NewGuy]

And this is a test game, I do believe. If it turns out good, they'll keep it, possibly.

If it turns out horrible, with lots of complaints, and everyone's angry.......blood and feces everywhere......Oh the Humanity.............and then nobody wants to come back, they'll probably not keep it.