Charging and Fists & Daggers


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Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:06 pm

Charging and Fists & Daggers

I was looking over the charging rules and the rules for tiny weapon sizes.

To keep two feet of distance while swinging a tiny weapon, I must almost fully extend my arms, looking much like a forklift, and my arms are pretty long. For anyone with less reach and less than the maximum length tiny weapon, it is downright impossible to hit someone without charging.

So I guess my question is, what is going to change? Will Monk and Brawler be dropped or will fists be converted to a longer weapon type to represent 'getting in close'? Will the charging rules be relaxed?
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Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:18 pm

Fists and Tiny weapons have been changed to 18 inches instead of 12.

Edited.

my forearm is just over 12 inchest from elbow to palm. That means that if I hold a 12 in weapon and bend my arms straight at my waist like I was holding a gun, and had a 12' fist phyrep, it would be not charging. That's pretty close.
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Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:42 pm

I'm going to ask the GM's if they can give a demonstration on the differing things that charging and safe combat entails at the next game. Or if they want I can get it all ready to go for next event. Proper fist phys rep usage, not leading with the head, the level of the head, and other safety concerns. I would suggest that it be a once a year thing so that people will be reminded of or even shown for the first time what are and aren't safe combat techniques.
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Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:12 pm

If you keep your weapon between yourself and your opponent, then you probably aren't charging.
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Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:17 pm

Practice?

Atrum Draconus wrote:I'm going to ask the GM's if they can give a demonstration on the differing things that charging and safe combat entails at the next game. Or if they want I can get it all ready to go for next event. Proper fist phys rep usage, not leading with the head, the level of the head, and other safety concerns. I would suggest that it be a once a year thing so that people will be reminded of or even shown for the first time what are and aren't safe combat techniques.


I know the distance thing is an issue for those out of range... but this is what our "practice sessions" are supposed to be used for. I watch folks "practice" things that have little to do with how the game is played... if it's "King's Rules", then they're not using or learning how to play FH rules.. just defense and attack. If they're using "FH Rules", often there's a little more emphesis on attack formations, but rarely do I see good effort to help the new folks understand the rules they'll be playing with and against. I see a lot of sloppy techniques, or letting folks get away with things because it's "just practice... let him play." But I think what you bring up is valid and is what Practice should be about... Instruction and practicing techniques and not only understanding and familiarizing yourself with the rules, but learning how to work with and react to them.


Of course... lately "Practice" has wound down to more or less just hanging out for an hour or two with a few attempts at practicing before folks split up, but much of that is because only a few people show up too, I think.

Maybe we need to arrange a day somewhere nearer the middle of the state... "Practice", BBQ and Alchahol? Yeah, a long shot, but who knows? Wrap an "instructional day" into the whole thing so that newbs can get to know the other players outside of the game too (not just at Craic Wisely shows).

(Hmmm.. you know, this post may need to get moved--or at least in part-- to another thread in the near future...)
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Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:26 pm

Well, the rules list it as 12-18 inches, for the whole length of the weapon, not just the blade. My blade, whole length, is 14 inches, but I've tested slightly longer variants. I have to hold my arm straight out and I can move a little. At 12 inches, I can barely scrape a target in front of me. At 18, I have some more wiggle room, but still come off with arms basically necessitated to be fully extended to actually hit with the weapon beyond stabbing.

Which in and of itself isn't a great idea. The fists don't do much damage swinging but sticking them out in front like spikes and dodging in and out of combat with locked straight arms is going to end up causing problems. Not to mention, it is right on the border of charging everytime you fight. A step forward too fast will put you there, intentionally or not, and judging these distances with nighttime fighting isn't that easy. This is also assuming we don't bend our knees, which can extend out about 6 inches to a foot closer to a person next to us, which I have the bruise to prove can be painful when they knock together.

So, lets say we take the full 18 inch blades and run with it, say this is the minimum legal weapon length. The blade can now reach, but machine gunning isn't feasible. Any slight motion away will inevitably lead to chase, where one must keep ones arms fully extended and tap away at the target without getting too close.

To summarize: Its like trying to fight some flying foe on the edge of a cliff- you have to reach over, but one mistep puts you in grave danger of plunging off.
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Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:18 pm

Lets bring a video camera and take some footage of what is and what is not charging. Once we all agree on the footage that is and is not we will post it in an FAQ.

This way we will have a much better explanation.
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Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:24 pm

tapes

GM_Chris wrote:Lets bring a video camera and take some footage of what is and what is not charging. Once we all agree on the footage that is and is not we will post it in an FAQ.

This way we will have a much better explanation.


Just one more step closer to "FH: the Movie"... you want stock footage, don't you?!
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Post Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:57 pm

A video tape would probably be very useful, especially if what constitutes charging is easier shown than explained.
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Post Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:22 am

If you are using small weapons, then you shouldn't be able to hit someone in the back. As for length, you should easily have a foot of fudge room (I'm only 5'9" and have almost a 2ft reach without a weapon). If you are facing an opponent with a larger weapon, you won't be able to machine gun (not well, anyway), as you'll be swinging one weapon while keeping the other between you and them.

Ultimately, one of the main reasons for the modified ruling is to avoid the "bear hug" two weapon attack, as it's too dangerous (though extremely popular). It can too easily end up with someone's head hitting a metal helm (and has).
My posts in no way reflect that of anyone else nor are they in any way official.

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