Resist Calls

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Tonia Glowski
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Post by Tonia Glowski »

The problem comes with physical representations. What's to say that someone couldn't be faking pain but not actually taking damage? Or pretending to be stuck to the ground, but really just staying put til you turn your back? Or faking like they're scared or even dead and it not actually be the case?

I've played dead before, but if anyone ever asked me if I looked damaged (whether they had first aid or not), unless I had been hit and there would have been blood somewhere, I tell them that I do not appear to be bleeding to death. That may be more information than I am required to give a PC or NPC, but because there is no real way to represent that I'm on the ground bleeding to death versus just feigning it, I am upfront in good faith. I've also called "no effect" on a fear spell and run away screaming (in another LARP) so that it represents that I don't look totally horrified, like I imagine someone who is actually fearful looks. It's subtle, but it's there if someone wants to pay attention to it.

It's impossible to represent since we're acting in all of these situations. I think calling "no effect" should be required if damage, magic or other effects do not effect you at that particular moment for any reason as just another means of phys-repping.
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Post by Onimaster »

If I am playing a creature that is immune to something and under attack I try to gage how much I have taken to how obvious it is that players aren't effecting it, and at some point when I think the "well... damn-it" threshold is crossed by players I'll tip them off.

If it's one guy hitting once and a while that threshold take a while... if I am in the center of a twelve man beatdown... it usually comes a bit quicker. But most times if a player takes the time to ask specifically out of shenanigans suspicion I'll shoot him/her an answer right away. It's all subjective, and may differ depending on how obvious the situation is and what the narrator wants to get out of the story.

For example: A 30 boom to the chest in the middle of a field may get a loud and proud "No effect" because it's showy and obvious, but in the shadows if someone walks up on a guard from behind and uses 'Sleep' only to find it's a golum dressed in armor or undead... may only get the end of a not sleeping sword in reply. Because, if they had to say no effect at that instant the surprise of the unexpected moment would be gone, and quite obviously... they are not sleeping.

Remember "No effect" isn't a call... It's an abbreviated narration.
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Post by Peace420 »

Immunity, resist either way the players should be told that a damaging effect didn't work, in the 30 magic example that would be a resist and PC strategy (what little there is of it :lol:) is certainly different depending on whether this guy just took a 30 like a punch from a non-monk. Communicate as much as you can about what is happening as like I said, you can't phys rep it right.
I know of at least one creature at our event, that when it was stuck by a certain type of effect, it stepped back. No one noticed. This is a story, not beat every creature to death as hard and as fasty as you can.
You don't know if anyone noticed or not, just because they didn't share that information with anyone else while one of the GM's was present does not mean noone noticed. And alot of people do notice those things, I am always looking for clues from the NPC's. And yeah it's a game, a game that noone including GM's can win. So purposefully withholding information that should be readily obvious just because your plot hinges on a particular resist or immunity is lame IMO. That's almost as bad as a plot writeup that says that a PC dies in it no matter what... :wink:
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Post by WayneO42 »

This topic has strayed significantly from the opening question:
Can a line be added to the rule book stating when you resist an effect via a skill, item, immunity that a person needs to say that it is being resisted out loud. This lets everyone know the effect / attack did not hurt the person. A very obivous thing. Also, it would stop people from wondering how X person did such thing, did they not hear the call, do they have a resist, are they cheating, etc...
To this question I say no. I am just one GM however and I do not feel strongly enough to veto a yes vote from another GM. I feel that the reasoning behind wanting resists called out loud by PCs is to verify that they are not cheating. I WILL NOT write rules for the lowest common moral code. This games very foundation relies on the honor system.

As for NPCs, I do think we need to make a better effort at role-playing out ALL hits so ones that dont effect us are more aparent. I think PCs should do this as well but it is a lot to ask
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Post by General Maximus »

Here are the reasons for the resit calls

1. feedback to the people doing the attack so they know if there attack works or not and if they have to try something else to hurt the thing/person they are attacking. It's very easy to tell when you hurt something, blood flies, body parts drop, it gets messy. That is main reason for the calls. I realy don't care about people cheating on calls. It all about feedback so one can change up there attack staragety. It is very fustrating to be attacking something for a couple minutes and trying finding out after repeated attempts to ask the question if the attack did anything. It's all about feed back and planning.
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Post by dier_cire »

Adding a resist requirement isn't about cheating, but how to proceed with your attack. It's checks and balances. Requiring a resist call isn't a sleight at honor, it's letting others know of it. If I have an attack strategy (especially PC vs. PC which you either have one or will likely fail) and the victim gets around that by not calling a resist when the resist call would signifigantly alter said attack strategy, then it's pretty cheap. And the whole reason would be "well, it's not in the rules".

If it's in the rules, it doesn't mean that they can't be bent in high speed scenarios, ie I'm getting peppered with 10 crush, I might not get every parry off, but one or two gets the point across and no one will bitch (generally).

Blondie and I ended up in the type of scenario being described as far as strategy goes just last event. I was using press (I called it multiple times and placed my weapon on his chest) he didn't acknowledge so I waited for him to do something. Then I got hit with 10 crush due to standing there. Had I known he heard my call and was immune/resisted I wouldn't have taken the damage as I wouldn't have been there.

What amazes me is that those of us who usually disagree are all in agreement for the addition. That to me says it's worth a look.
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Post by Tonia Glowski »

dier_cire wrote:What amazes me is that those of us who usually disagree are all in agreement for the addition. That to me says it's worth a look.
Yeah! What he said!
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Post by cole45 »

"So purposefully withholding information that should be readily obvious just because your plot hinges on a particular resist or immunity is lame IMO."

That's my point. If it's NOT going to be apperent(and face it, sometimes it's NOT.) then they are not going to know. That said, the question becomes, who determines whether damaging a creature is apperent? Easy, THE GMS. that's why an description or instruction set was written the way it was.


MAYBE, JUST maybe, the plot is NOT about killing something, but making the players think about what it is they are doing.
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Post by WayneO42 »

Ok, I am willing to take a step away from the type of game I want FH to be and go with popular opinion. So here it goes

If your character is hit with an attack that they are immune to or can resist, you must call "Resist" out loud. This simulates the ability of your opponent to notice that their attack had no effect. Similarily, because an opponent is able to easily asses your condition in combat (destroyed armour, blood driping from wounds, guts hanging out) you may not act out any effects such as "playing dead", acting hurt, pretending to be unconcious, etc. unless your character is actually suffering from such a condition.
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Post by General Maximus »

Yes, thats what I ws looking for. As for NPC's, they can do what they want. If it's in a plot, it doesn't need to be called, but in general a resist should be called or no effect..
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Post by dier_cire »

See to me that's too extreme. I'd say add the call to the individual skills. Ie:

Level 2: Resist Fear
The Beast Hunter can spend a life point to ignore the effects of any kind of fear effect. When using this skill, the Beast Hunter should say "Resist" or "No effect".


That way it's not in some random location. Also note the word "should". This allows for the occasional "oops" without huge debates. However, it allows for easy resolution of disagreements as they should have done it.

And so on for the rest of the resists, press, and parry.

Now for the dwarven immunity, not sure since it is dwarf only if it needs mentioning especially since the rest of the call goes through.

As for defensive matrix and hold ground, these are both Warrior only and have obvious effects (0 damage or not moving), I'd say we are ok.

And remember GMs, you have the right to modify the rules for any monster/scene. Just let us know (possibly at game on for a random monster like the beast) so we don't get frustrated.

edit: also note, you can still feign death, as it doesn't gain you much. Plus, if someone asks you'd still have to say "no", if you weren't dead.
Last edited by dier_cire on Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by cole45 »

dwarves arn't immune. It's a resist. (and they should call it, for the same reasons above.)

Gutherie are immune to fear. They can call immune.
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Post by dier_cire »

Dwarven resist poison isn't a true resist. It's an immunity with a life point cost. Resists block the whole call, immunities block just that portion.

Debate the naming forever, but it, immunity to disease, immunity to fear, and immunity to mind effects all work the same with the single exception of the life point expeniture. They are their own deal.
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Post by cole45 »

I understand your arguement, but on what page does that get spelled out?

There is no resist/immune difference spelled out in the book. (i'm sure it used to be, and I agree with your logic.)
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Post by WayneO42 »

Ok, here are the resists that are in game and achievable by PCs. The ones I think are "observable" have an (*):

*Immune to movement restrictions (Root)
Resist (Immune) Poison
Immune to Disease
Resist Fear
*Resist Taunt
Resist Torture/ Interrogate
Resist Sleep
*Resist Press
*Resist Magic
*Immune to Ranged attacks

I think a better way is to make a blanket statement that you must call a resist and then put the exceptions in the skills that you don’t need to.

The way I would really like to do it is to add the following to the "Basics of playing your character" section:

Getting Hit
Throughout the course of the game, you will be hit with safe physical representations of weapons made out of foam and various padding. You may also be hit with packets of bird seed that can represent arrows, bolts, rocks, magical spells, etc.

In the game, these represent your character being struck and wounded. In the game world, your character would be dripping with blood or singed by magical energies. Blood and burns cannot be physically represented effectively without ruining expensive props and costumes. Because of this, it is very important that you role-play any hits you take so your opponents know that the attack affected you.

The bigger the strike (i.e. the higher the damage number called) the more dramatic the reaction should be. For example, if you are hit in the arm by someone calling "1" with a club then you may let out a cry of pain or stumble backwards. If you are hit by a knight calling "2" with a two handed sword you may want to cry in pain and clench your arm. If you are hit with a packet for "30 Magic" you may fall backwards or drop to one knee. Role-playing your hits is a way of acknowledging your opponents strikes and increasing the overall immersion of the game.
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