Lash and warrior skills

[GM_Chris]

WOW we are having some rules issues.

Posion and disease without a number surge and DO penitrate armor.

Ried, I do not want lash to be a melee attack by default unless we as GM's have a discussion. I do not want to change teh rule book over some monster with a call you have see once every couple years.

If we make it a melee attack then the empath boom can be resisted as a melee and it is NOT a melee attack, unless we say amm magic is non melee. Now we get into exceptions.

So here is what you get.

1) Lash is not melee
2) non numbered calls DO surge through armor (no need for a vorpal call)
3) NPC monsters who use lash will be rare since there is no resist. When you do see lash it will either A) not have a damage number to represent a "gas" or B) will have magic associated with it so people do not imagine the event as a melee attack and see it instead to an empath boom. That way no one will have an impolded head.

I mean TRUST me you do not want to add resists to lash because then instead of seeing 1 lash, you will see 2 , 3, 4, or 5 lash so we can get the effect we want. Unfortunatly we will not, instead we just make it worse for all non warriors. Lets face is warriors are tough enough

[Peace420]

Uhm Chris, if an NPC called lash poison or just plain poison even if it had vorpal in it I sure wouldn't take it unless I didn't have any armor or CR, since that skill specifically says it needs to affect life points, I wouldn't even ask if I should take it or not until after the encounter and I'd ask what the heck was that. So yeah there are definitely some rule issues and it seems they are in the rules themselves. How can something affect your life if it doesn't have a # attatched to it? Why do poison, disease and fear all work differently? And surge always meant you couldn't stop it with a shield or baseballing the packet out of the air (like fear), when did that change?

The fix for NPC effects would seem to be to change the description of poison so it matches the description of disease, which already says if you are hit with vorpal disease it affects you whereas poison has to have a number. And of course adding lash as a call, seeing as it isn't listed in the calls only magical lash.

And the lash (no magic) calls I've heard have been more than 1 so....

[GM_Chris]

Hey maybe I am wrong!

The way I look at it is this.

-Numbered calls delivered with a weapon are melee
-Numbered called by a packet are blockable by a shield and ALWAYS surge through a sword you cannot Baseball a packet. NO NO NO
-Non numbered calls surge through everything.

Now for a couple extras!
1) Posion and disease need to get through your armor, but see above (non numbered calls surge through EVERYTHING) that trumpts the armor deal.


So if you re hit with a 1 posion by RANGE then it must get through armor UNLESS you try and baseball it with your sword in which it surges and hits you.

If you are hit with 1 posion and it is melee then it must get through your armor AND you are allowed all the skills that allow you to "blocK" the damage. Forexample if you were Def/matrix with no armor on and are hit with 1 posion it would not hit you because damage was reduced to 0.

If you are hit with Posion then it surges all through everything!

If you are hit with Lash posion it surges AND it is mass effect.

At least that is how it has been in my mind. GM power activate..Form of an Answer! Am I wrong? Do the rules need more clarification?

[dier_cire]

This event I took over 50 lash... and it was on two seperate plots.
But it is a rarity to see that, this is true.

Basically, I'm just concerned that had we not had the pow wow about lash before the air cave, we could have pretty much been slaughtered by the elementals. Since Mike explained that there would be lash and that it wouldn't be resistable, we were all able to take the damage properly and knew ahead of time that it was gonna get nasty. I just don't want to see some event where 8 PCs enter a cave only to get surprised and in the mess of can we take it or can't we, end up dead (or with a mass rewind). In our situation, the npcs poped up and we were running before they moved and we didn't even know how much lash they could do.

I'm against forced damage but if you want it, I'd just prefer the heads up so no one goes "wait. How's that skill work again?". If it's explained ahead of time (like the air cave), no one has the issue, plus we know the cave/plot will be a PITA. This is really due to the infrequent use of the call.

As for the molds, they really should just be "lash disease" (though they were cool and we'll be ready next time). The 1 vorpal doesn't really make sense as mold isn't piercing (especially since it halves your life anyway). But that's just me.

[dier_cire]

At least that is how it has been in my mind. GM power activate..Form of an Answer! Am I wrong? Do the rules need more clarification?

I would never naturally assume Poison or Disease without a number surge through a shield (I'd see it as spit or something, and it hit the shield thus not me). Now Lash Poison, sure.

The ranged 1 poison hitting a sword wouldn't surge and affect you unless you didn't have armor where it'd be just 1 damage (poison is absorbed by armor). Which I think is what you meant but it came out like you'd always take the poison.

[cole45]

the rules on poison and diease do not need to be clarified. They are extremely clear. They need to be corrected. the poison call states what it does in the chart. If that is incorrect it needs to be reworded.

Of course, from previous statements such a correction is not like to occur until the down season?

[Lambic]

just to pipe in:

I have to agree that I did not understand that poison or disease with out a number call worked the way you are saying Chris.

I hope then that I didn't handle the mold cave wrong. As I understood the rules if it got to your life then it didn't effect you. Since it didn't get to my life it didn't affect me. I'm sorry Mike if I didn't understand that you were seriously telling me I was wrong Sunday morning, just in a nice way.

That would've made that cave really really deadly.

[GM-Mike]

No, I wasn't telling you you were wrong seriously. The way the call was said, you were able to resist it

[WayneO42]

-Numbered calls delivered with a weapon are melee

Correct. I think this is pretty clear in the book

-Numbered called by a packet are blockable by a shield and ALWAYS surge through a sword you cannot Baseball a packet. NO NO NO

This is covered on page 16:

Certain skills allow players to perform special actions. For example, the Barbarian can cause fear. When you are hit with any attack that is not preceded by a number (i.e. “Fear” as opposed to “10 magic”) then you are affected by that attack if it hits any part of you, your sword, or your shield. On the other hand, weapon attacks preceded by a number can be blocked by a weapon or a shield, and packet driven attacks preceded by a number can be blocked by a shield.

We need to make it clear that this includes arrow phys-reps as well.

I also think we need to add to the safety section that you should never baseball bat swing at a packet for safety reasons. It requires you to make a wild swing with a weapon that someone could walk into and if you do hit a packet, there is no telling where it will go.

-Non numbered calls surge through everything.

Correct. This is on page 16 of the book

Now for a couple extras!
1) Posion and disease need to get through your armor, but see above (non numbered calls surge through EVERYTHING) that trumpts the armor deal.

Certain skills allow players to perform special actions. For example, the Barbarian can cause fear. When you are hit with any attack that is not preceded by a number (i.e. “Fear” as opposed to “10 magic”) then you are affected by that attack if it hits any part of you, your sword, or your shield. On the other hand, weapon attacks preceded by a number can be blocked by a weapon or a shield, and packet driven attacks preceded by a number can be blocked by a shield.

It is technically covered in the above rule but we should make it much more clear (maybe somehow in the wording of the poison and disease call).

So if you re hit with a 1 posion by RANGE then it must get through armor UNLESS you try and baseball it with your sword in which it surges and hits you.

Incorrect. You would take the "Hit" of 1 poison. If you had armour then it would "block" the poison. In the same example, if the call were just "Poison" then you would be correct (according to the mighty page 16).

If you are hit with Posion then it surges all through everything!

True

If you are hit with Lash posion it surges AND it is mass effect.

Also True

[cole45]

"
It is technically covered in the above rule but we should make it much more clear (maybe somehow in the wording of the poison and disease call)."

Yes, the problem lies in the wording of the Poison and disease call. Since they explicitly state that the effect only occurs if you have no armor, or are struck by vorpal. Just add something along the lines of

Current:
When a character is hit by a poison attack that deals at least 1 damage
to their life points, i.e. they have no armor points or they are hit by a
"x vorpal poison" call, the character is considered to be poisoned. A
character may also be poisoned by consuming a poison potion. When
poisoned the character can no longer activate any charged skills or
skills that use a life point until the poison is cured. In addition if the
character is using such a skill it is dropped.

New:

When a character is hit by a poison attack that deals at least 1 damage
to their life points, i.e. they have no armor points or they are hit by a
"x vorpal poison" call, the character is considered to be poisoned. If it is a Non-numbered call, they are affected if struck reguardless of armor. A
character may also be poisoned by consuming a poison potion. When
poisoned the character can no longer activate any charged skills or
skills that use a life point until the poison is cured. In addition if the
character is using such a skill it is dropped.

[WayneO42]

That works. Good wordsmithing

[dier_cire]

I think I just need a cheat sheet for the oddball calls one might hear.

And I have to agree that the Special Damage Call section covers it, however in the damage call section above it, some calls reference how they can affect while others don't. It'd make more sense if the special call section didn't exist and the info was in the call section, or remove the how you can be affected part in the call section (prefered). Reason I'd go with put how you are affected all into one section is then the call is only the effects and no the how, and the other is the how and not the effects. Make sense?

(Course I should have associated fear and poison as the same type of call)

[Peace420]

I think I just need a cheat sheet for the oddball calls one might hear.

And I have to agree that the Special Damage Call section covers it, however in the damage call section above it, some calls reference how they can affect while others don't. It'd make more sense if the special call section didn't exist and the info was in the call section, or remove the how you can be affected part in the call section (prefered). Reason I'd go with put how you are affected all into one section is then the call is only the effects and no the how, and the other is the how and not the effects. Make sense?

(Course I should have associated fear and poison as the same type of call)

Yeah, I think it should all be in 1 place and that all the special calls should work the same way, it makes things MUCH MUCH easier, if you have to look in multiple places and find out if there is another rule that trumps the basic rule that is the opposite of simple which would be complex... which the combat system is not supposed to be.

[GM_Chris]

Well phew good to see I was right abotu something.

Wayne, The reason I said the sword would surge is really a penalty to the mindset of baseball swinging (blocking) with non shields and thinking you are covered. I am cool with it not though.

In anycase this isnt that hard to remember and as you all can tell posion, disease, fear, and other surge effects all work the same.

Forexample, if I swing a sword at you and I call 1 fear and you were using Def/Matrix then since the damage is reduced to 0 you do not take the fear.

PLEASE do NOT try and analyse what is hitting you wether it spit, slim, hands, or a monster farting on you. All you need to remember is the following

1) Does it have a number? Yes..then you can utilize skills to block depending on delivery method

2) If it does not have a number then it surges no matter what medium I happen to use. I.E. Calling "fear" and hitting your shield with a melee weapon would be a surge effect. Lifewise using a weapon and calling Posion would be a surge effect through a shield since no number was used.

[dier_cire]

1) Does it have a number? Yes..then you can utilize skills to block depending on delivery method

2) If it does not have a number then it surges no matter what medium I happen to use. I.E. Calling "fear" and hitting your shield with a melee weapon would be a surge effect. Lifewise using a weapon and calling Posion would be a surge effect through a shield since no number was used.

Unless otherwise overruled by a GM running the scene.

Actually, I'd encourage overruling a call (pick at random) on one or two scenes an event. It'll help the PCs remember all the caveats. It'd be like a little reminder/test each event.