First, I'm doing what has been asked of me by the NPC's. Look at the rules, see whats unbalaced, broken, and inform the NPC's of the problem and give a couple solutions. That is what and Eric have been doing since the begining. That is why we are so volcal. What I want to see is all the rules are balanced, fair, easy to understand, and there is no confusion what can and what can't be done. When the rules are incomplete it takes away from roleplaying. An example is the way Root is writen in the rule book. Root takes 10 sec's to break free. But it also says if a timed action is intrerupted the person must start over again. To intreupt some one you only need to hit them. I was useing root and some NPC's where just doing the 10 sec's and other where playing it as an uninterupted 10 secs. Big difference. I was getting fustrated because the effect of root was different based on which NPC it was effecting. That takes away from roleplaying and just leaves one fustrated.
So if you view Eric and mine suggestions and rule balanceing as complaints than take it up with the NPC conuill. Until asked to stop by the conuil Eric and I will contuine to support the game and balance out the rules.
2nd Rules are set up as to resolve conflict nothing else. The rules have nothing to do with roleplaying. It is up to the person how they want roleplay out the skill. It is a death sentence for FH to set up strict roleplaying guide lines for a skill. As Wayne said, you will start getting cookie cutter characters.
3 rd If you have a vision to remove combat from FH and only concentrate on roleplaying, than go play Vampire the masqurade and enjoy doing the rock, paper, scissors contest to reslove conflict. Half the fun of FH is the combat, I know that is why I and Eric come. Remove combat, you will loose many people from FH.
4th Let me know which direction the NPC's would like the druid skill go and Eric and I will write up propsals for NPC's to review and hopefully approve. The propsals will be done so it does not unbalance the game but fair to the 4th level druid. Getting claws and a simple ability, but lossing all the use of all equipment, skills, speach, is plain SILLY and unfair!
After the Event Questions
Moderator: Admin
Disagree
My Thoughts
Aaron
Aaron
Getting back to the skill at hand, here are what I feel to be currently the popoular and/or most balanced ideas:
1. Have animals fall into general categories and have a single skill based on that. Ie poisonous gets touch of death, Big animals get crush, medium sized critters (wolf, pather, etc) get rage, flightly critters get flee. (pro: everyone feels special, con: somewhat more difficult to balance and people will continually want to expand the list)
2. All animals get rage. Effect is you get kinda furry, feathery what have you. (pro: easy to balance, keeps in the totem world, and max damage is still 3 con: people don't feel special and rage probably causes an issue somewhere that I can't see)
3. All animals get short sword sized claws. (pro: simple and is still in the totem world, con: people don't feel special)
4. Pacify animal (pro: easy to balance and keeps druid general, con: new call)
5. Meld with tree (Aaron and I thought up this one last night) user runs to a tree and does a 15 count. At that point they sink into the ground and may come out at any other tree they want. (pros: simple and general, cons: people are walking around out of game whenever they use the skill)
Personally, I like pacify and then throw in a shifter discipline along the lines of this:
Shifter
level 1: communicate with animals
level 2: dagger sized claws (or possibly minor ability)
level 3: short sword sized claws (reason for lower level is you have to be shifted)
level 4: animal ability (see #1 for ideas)
Also to have a little fun make shifted form magical or disenchant works on them. Gives the witch hunter ability a little more oopfh.
1. Have animals fall into general categories and have a single skill based on that. Ie poisonous gets touch of death, Big animals get crush, medium sized critters (wolf, pather, etc) get rage, flightly critters get flee. (pro: everyone feels special, con: somewhat more difficult to balance and people will continually want to expand the list)
2. All animals get rage. Effect is you get kinda furry, feathery what have you. (pro: easy to balance, keeps in the totem world, and max damage is still 3 con: people don't feel special and rage probably causes an issue somewhere that I can't see)
3. All animals get short sword sized claws. (pro: simple and is still in the totem world, con: people don't feel special)
4. Pacify animal (pro: easy to balance and keeps druid general, con: new call)
5. Meld with tree (Aaron and I thought up this one last night) user runs to a tree and does a 15 count. At that point they sink into the ground and may come out at any other tree they want. (pros: simple and general, cons: people are walking around out of game whenever they use the skill)
Personally, I like pacify and then throw in a shifter discipline along the lines of this:
Shifter
level 1: communicate with animals
level 2: dagger sized claws (or possibly minor ability)
level 3: short sword sized claws (reason for lower level is you have to be shifted)
level 4: animal ability (see #1 for ideas)
Also to have a little fun make shifted form magical or disenchant works on them. Gives the witch hunter ability a little more oopfh.
-
Todd
- Town Member
- Posts: 1111
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:03 am
- Location: somewhere making someone angry
First a new disclaimer; My views and complaints, are my views an complaints. They are not meant to be taken as a standpoint of the entire FH Staff. If this is confusing I will make up a new screen name so its easier to tell the difference.
In order;
1) I have no problem with you looking for breaks, I apreciat the help, especially when you offer solutions. But there is a difference between being 'Broken', and 'Not being cool enough for You'. In addition, Root. That has to deal with a wording error, and a repeated misunderstanding. Root is NOT a non-interupted count.
2) The rules may not have much to do with it, I'll give you that. Its the 'concept' that is important. If there are no concepts, then there are no reasons for multiple Races, etc.
3) You missed my point entirely. I would like to keep both, but everytime a complaint about a skill comes up someone says "its not powerful enough' or 'isnt good enough in combat'. My statement was that if thats the way you feel, perhaps we should eliminate every extrainious rule. Make it straight combat, and reduce our rulebook to 6 pages.
4) And I'm going to quote this one.
And lastly, And I'd like to renew my 'I am an Island unto myself' statement.
~fin~
In order;
1) I have no problem with you looking for breaks, I apreciat the help, especially when you offer solutions. But there is a difference between being 'Broken', and 'Not being cool enough for You'. In addition, Root. That has to deal with a wording error, and a repeated misunderstanding. Root is NOT a non-interupted count.
2) The rules may not have much to do with it, I'll give you that. Its the 'concept' that is important. If there are no concepts, then there are no reasons for multiple Races, etc.
3) You missed my point entirely. I would like to keep both, but everytime a complaint about a skill comes up someone says "its not powerful enough' or 'isnt good enough in combat'. My statement was that if thats the way you feel, perhaps we should eliminate every extrainious rule. Make it straight combat, and reduce our rulebook to 6 pages.
4) And I'm going to quote this one.
If you want to come up with proposals, lets see some high end, and low end proposals. lets look at the whole skill, not just the combat aspect.Let me know which direction the NPC's would like the druid skill go and Eric and I will write up propsals for NPC's to review and hopefully approve. The propsals will be done so it does not unbalance the game but fair to the 4th level druid.
And lastly, And I'd like to renew my 'I am an Island unto myself' statement.
You turn into an animal! Makes sense to me. Dont like it, dont take it.Getting claws and a simple ability, but lossing all the use of all equipment, skills, speach, is plain SILLY and unfair!
~fin~
-
Kathryn Skress
- Town Member
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:59 pm
- Contact:
1. I resent the implication that all players take paths/disciplines simply to make them more powerful. That view is narrow-minded and wrong. The majority of us take them because the other paths/diciplines do not match our character concept.
2. I think Eric and Aaron have done a good job so far on helping with the rules.
I'm going to stop posting for now because I'll just say something else to piss people off. I don't like pissing people off OOG, but I felt this needed to be said. Don't assume you know why people take skills.
Natalie
2. I think Eric and Aaron have done a good job so far on helping with the rules.
I'm going to stop posting for now because I'll just say something else to piss people off. I don't like pissing people off OOG, but I felt this needed to be said. Don't assume you know why people take skills.
Natalie
Druid
I disagree with a skill that makes you less powerful/useful unlike all other skills which grant a person an advantage. The reason why you take certain path, disapline, skills, is so you can have an advantage against your enimies.
The idea of changing into an animal is cool, and I'm in favor, but notin the current format.
The way the current skill is written up and was played last event is below
Advantages
2 dagger sized claws that do 1 damage and can not be disarmed - equilavant to level 1 arcane spell
1 bonus of that animal while as an animal
You are disgused as that animal
Negatives
can not speak
can not use any skills
can not use any equipment
can not pick up or manuplate anything
A zero level character is more useful than the animal shape. Skills are suppose to give an advantage, not a negative. I don't see many people, if any taking the skill. If they want the shape changing ability take level 1 arcane, grow claws, (role play it that you transform into an animal), and you still have the use of all your equipment and skills.
The idea of changing into an animal is cool, and I'm in favor, but notin the current format.
The way the current skill is written up and was played last event is below
Advantages
2 dagger sized claws that do 1 damage and can not be disarmed - equilavant to level 1 arcane spell
1 bonus of that animal while as an animal
You are disgused as that animal
Negatives
can not speak
can not use any skills
can not use any equipment
can not pick up or manuplate anything
A zero level character is more useful than the animal shape. Skills are suppose to give an advantage, not a negative. I don't see many people, if any taking the skill. If they want the shape changing ability take level 1 arcane, grow claws, (role play it that you transform into an animal), and you still have the use of all your equipment and skills.
My Thoughts
Aaron
Aaron
-
Tonia Glowski
- Town Member
- Posts: 246
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:15 am
- Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
- Contact:
Here's some food for thought for those of you who don't think that while shapeshifted into their totem animal they should lose their skills (I'll use the Bear as an example, since we have encountered this):
If you're shapeshifted into a Bear, but you know Alchemy, do you think your Bear-like paws and your natural quadraped posture is going to be very accommodating to using a mortar and pestle, peeling nuts and seeds (which requires finite detail), pouring liquids into potion bottles or picking up exactly the components you need and nothing else? I'd argue that if you've become a Bear, while you still may have *some* of the intelligence to discuss a skill, you cannot perform it. Moreover, while animals exhibit some intelligence, they are much more feral and primal than to sit around having a scholarly discussion on emulsifiers.
(On a personal note, Aaron, you roleplayed the personality changes in you as an Elf/Totem very, very well when you came to talk to us Sunday morning, keep this in mind.)
If you're shapeshifted into a Bear, but you know Backstab, do you think your Bear-like paws and your SHORTER quadraped posture or MUCH TALLER upright position is going to be very accommodating to hitting your target with the exact precision that you generally hit it with while in normal form? The assumption is, if you can exhibit this skill, you've practiced enough to be able to deliver the backstab in your normal form. If you're in a totally different shaped and sized body, what makes you think you can do the same thing? What makes you think you'd think that way and want to do those things as your totem?
This comparison can go on and on... do you think the Bear can exhibit the disciplines generally reserved to the privileged class, like Interrogator or Bureaucrat? Be serious in your answer and honest with yourself.
If you really think that the Bear should be able to mix alchemy, backstab and tie someone up into Inescapable Bonds, as well as demonstrate Leadership with your Allegiance Points (if you're in form all weekend), then by all means continue this discussion, but if something I've said strikes a chord, then re-evaluate your approach.
Equipment and items fall under the same line of reasoning.
The last thing I'm going to say is that the 4th Level Druid Skill as it stands sounds pretty damn cool to me, with a lot of advantages. Unique advantages that NO ONE ELSE can even replicate. There are some skills that to the player or character will always sound better or more powerful, there are others that won't be appealling. All in all, it already sounds balanced to me. Just because while isolated it doesn't sound as powerful in combat as another, doesn't mean it is not as VALUABLE.
If you're shapeshifted into a Bear, but you know Alchemy, do you think your Bear-like paws and your natural quadraped posture is going to be very accommodating to using a mortar and pestle, peeling nuts and seeds (which requires finite detail), pouring liquids into potion bottles or picking up exactly the components you need and nothing else? I'd argue that if you've become a Bear, while you still may have *some* of the intelligence to discuss a skill, you cannot perform it. Moreover, while animals exhibit some intelligence, they are much more feral and primal than to sit around having a scholarly discussion on emulsifiers.
(On a personal note, Aaron, you roleplayed the personality changes in you as an Elf/Totem very, very well when you came to talk to us Sunday morning, keep this in mind.)
If you're shapeshifted into a Bear, but you know Backstab, do you think your Bear-like paws and your SHORTER quadraped posture or MUCH TALLER upright position is going to be very accommodating to hitting your target with the exact precision that you generally hit it with while in normal form? The assumption is, if you can exhibit this skill, you've practiced enough to be able to deliver the backstab in your normal form. If you're in a totally different shaped and sized body, what makes you think you can do the same thing? What makes you think you'd think that way and want to do those things as your totem?
This comparison can go on and on... do you think the Bear can exhibit the disciplines generally reserved to the privileged class, like Interrogator or Bureaucrat? Be serious in your answer and honest with yourself.
If you really think that the Bear should be able to mix alchemy, backstab and tie someone up into Inescapable Bonds, as well as demonstrate Leadership with your Allegiance Points (if you're in form all weekend), then by all means continue this discussion, but if something I've said strikes a chord, then re-evaluate your approach.
Equipment and items fall under the same line of reasoning.
The last thing I'm going to say is that the 4th Level Druid Skill as it stands sounds pretty damn cool to me, with a lot of advantages. Unique advantages that NO ONE ELSE can even replicate. There are some skills that to the player or character will always sound better or more powerful, there are others that won't be appealling. All in all, it already sounds balanced to me. Just because while isolated it doesn't sound as powerful in combat as another, doesn't mean it is not as VALUABLE.
Tonia Brown
aka: Talanalassë Isilisurë the Elven Artificer (Final Haven)
Jade the Gargoyle (Final Haven)
Pasha the Sylvani Seer (Winter Haven)
Grok the Orc Head (A Pouch)
aka: Talanalassë Isilisurë the Elven Artificer (Final Haven)
Jade the Gargoyle (Final Haven)
Pasha the Sylvani Seer (Winter Haven)
Grok the Orc Head (A Pouch)
Thus why rage is on there as an ability. You can use no other skill but rage. Solves the issue of alchemy or backstab... how you roleplay rage is your choice. If you turn into a bear cool. We still recognize you as your character, your race is still obvious, and you are the same size. If you want to go purple underwear and green, have fun. If you want to act the same and just swing more damage, feel free.
But ultimately, while all of what you can and cannot do in reality is great, it doesn't have to be written in the rule. The rule can be very concise and allow for one to do whatever. Whether they do is up to them. If you want to play a "Beast" (from Xmen), limiting what you can do prevents this. What if I've been in my bear form for years and that is the form I learned backstab with? What is a backstab anyway (there is no correct answer, it's how you roleplay it)? Can my touch of death be 'stink palming' soemone? Could it be conking them on the head with my massive bear arm?
Another issue with no abilities is this. What if my special is a flee and my race is aviana? Does the aviana add in? Technically, you aren't a bird any more, so... fails the easy to understand rule.
If you notice the level of complexity gets vastly out of hand. Rules need to stay simple. Recalculating one's hitpoints and armor every time you use a skill fails that rule.
Also the unique advantages is another thing it fails on since this gives one skill the effect of multiple disciplines. Obviously not at the same time, but having a choice of skills is a huge deal, when no one else gets this.
Btw, other than "it's cool and was there before" why does druid need to shapeshift?
But ultimately, while all of what you can and cannot do in reality is great, it doesn't have to be written in the rule. The rule can be very concise and allow for one to do whatever. Whether they do is up to them. If you want to play a "Beast" (from Xmen), limiting what you can do prevents this. What if I've been in my bear form for years and that is the form I learned backstab with? What is a backstab anyway (there is no correct answer, it's how you roleplay it)? Can my touch of death be 'stink palming' soemone? Could it be conking them on the head with my massive bear arm?
Another issue with no abilities is this. What if my special is a flee and my race is aviana? Does the aviana add in? Technically, you aren't a bird any more, so... fails the easy to understand rule.
If you notice the level of complexity gets vastly out of hand. Rules need to stay simple. Recalculating one's hitpoints and armor every time you use a skill fails that rule.
Also the unique advantages is another thing it fails on since this gives one skill the effect of multiple disciplines. Obviously not at the same time, but having a choice of skills is a huge deal, when no one else gets this.
Btw, other than "it's cool and was there before" why does druid need to shapeshift?
Level 4 Druid
Eric,
I have to agree with you completely. Lets remove "a player gets to chose a skill" and replace it with "the 4th level druid gets this skill period". Simple, easy, and will not lead into any rule breaks. If one wants to shape shift via a skills effect than cool, but don't make it mechanical.
As for the 4th level disapline as it is written would you give up all your skills, equipment, speach, to swing 1 damage with daggers, have your costume + life as the number times you get hit (no utlize armor, no endurance, no + to life from disaplines, etc..), you look like a human sized animal, and you get 1 special skill whilein that form (1 resist effect per change), 1 posion 1 attack which takes time to charge , + 1 damage with claws. I agree with all the arugments that if you are an animal you can't use certain skills, equipment, ect.., but as eric said it gets really complicted. It should be all or none, but if it is none, change shape shifting to a level 1 or level 2 ability becasue it is a limited disguse. To go into battle in that form would be a disadvantage, but most special animal abilities are combat related which does not make up the lost of all the other skills.
I would prefer to have shield, sword, armor, potions, backstab, nerve pinch, booms, root, going into a fight than having 2 daggers and 1 resist effect and only 3/4 of my total max damage I can take.
Maybe it is me, but I'm looking at this issue on rule mechanics and not from a roleplaying aspect. It is my feeling that rules should be seperate from roleplaying and the only time rules will come into effect is to resolve conflict within the game.
I love the idea of being to shift into an animal, but in game mechanics, it is completiced and under powers the druid when compared to the other 4th level disaplines. But if others feel it is not I will keep quite and we will move on. I have voice my opinion and I can only ask for you to read it and form your own opinion. In the end, it is up to the concuil to make the final decision. I have not taken any offence at anyones post, and I view this as a debate. I'm having fun with it.
As eric suggested
1. Have animals fall into general categories and have a single skill based on that. Ie poisonous gets touch of death, Big animals get crush, medium sized critters (wolf, pather, etc) get rage, flightly critters get flee. (pro: everyone feels special, con: somewhat more difficult to balance and people will continually want to expand the list)
2. All animals get rage. Effect is you get kinda furry, feathery what have you. (pro: easy to balance, keeps in the totem world, and max damage is still 3 con: people don't feel special and rage probably causes an issue somewhere that I can't see)
3. All animals get short sword sized claws. (pro: simple and is still in the totem world, con: people don't feel special)
4. Pacify animal (pro: easy to balance and keeps druid general, con: new call)
5. Meld with tree (Aaron and I thought up this one last night) user runs to a tree and does a 15 count. At that point they sink into the ground and may come out at any other tree they want. (pros: simple and general, cons: people are walking around out of game whenever they use the skill)
6. Natures fury - The druid summons the power and wraith of nature around them striking down any foe who is close by. The druid spends 1-2 life and does 1-5 magic lash damage. Could say it takes a 5 secs to use.
7. Shatter - destroys any weapon or bring armor hit down to zero. 30 secound count. (pro: easy to balance and keeps druid general, con: new call) .
Hopeful more ideas to come
I have to agree with you completely. Lets remove "a player gets to chose a skill" and replace it with "the 4th level druid gets this skill period". Simple, easy, and will not lead into any rule breaks. If one wants to shape shift via a skills effect than cool, but don't make it mechanical.
As for the 4th level disapline as it is written would you give up all your skills, equipment, speach, to swing 1 damage with daggers, have your costume + life as the number times you get hit (no utlize armor, no endurance, no + to life from disaplines, etc..), you look like a human sized animal, and you get 1 special skill whilein that form (1 resist effect per change), 1 posion 1 attack which takes time to charge , + 1 damage with claws. I agree with all the arugments that if you are an animal you can't use certain skills, equipment, ect.., but as eric said it gets really complicted. It should be all or none, but if it is none, change shape shifting to a level 1 or level 2 ability becasue it is a limited disguse. To go into battle in that form would be a disadvantage, but most special animal abilities are combat related which does not make up the lost of all the other skills.
I would prefer to have shield, sword, armor, potions, backstab, nerve pinch, booms, root, going into a fight than having 2 daggers and 1 resist effect and only 3/4 of my total max damage I can take.
Maybe it is me, but I'm looking at this issue on rule mechanics and not from a roleplaying aspect. It is my feeling that rules should be seperate from roleplaying and the only time rules will come into effect is to resolve conflict within the game.
I love the idea of being to shift into an animal, but in game mechanics, it is completiced and under powers the druid when compared to the other 4th level disaplines. But if others feel it is not I will keep quite and we will move on. I have voice my opinion and I can only ask for you to read it and form your own opinion. In the end, it is up to the concuil to make the final decision. I have not taken any offence at anyones post, and I view this as a debate. I'm having fun with it.
As eric suggested
1. Have animals fall into general categories and have a single skill based on that. Ie poisonous gets touch of death, Big animals get crush, medium sized critters (wolf, pather, etc) get rage, flightly critters get flee. (pro: everyone feels special, con: somewhat more difficult to balance and people will continually want to expand the list)
2. All animals get rage. Effect is you get kinda furry, feathery what have you. (pro: easy to balance, keeps in the totem world, and max damage is still 3 con: people don't feel special and rage probably causes an issue somewhere that I can't see)
3. All animals get short sword sized claws. (pro: simple and is still in the totem world, con: people don't feel special)
4. Pacify animal (pro: easy to balance and keeps druid general, con: new call)
5. Meld with tree (Aaron and I thought up this one last night) user runs to a tree and does a 15 count. At that point they sink into the ground and may come out at any other tree they want. (pros: simple and general, cons: people are walking around out of game whenever they use the skill)
6. Natures fury - The druid summons the power and wraith of nature around them striking down any foe who is close by. The druid spends 1-2 life and does 1-5 magic lash damage. Could say it takes a 5 secs to use.
7. Shatter - destroys any weapon or bring armor hit down to zero. 30 secound count. (pro: easy to balance and keeps druid general, con: new call) .
Hopeful more ideas to come
My Thoughts
Aaron
Aaron
The thing is, I think having the claws and a special ability (low level) is balanced as a 4th level discipline. Not spend a couple of life for a lash 2x what you spent. True you do lose out on some of the other abilities you can do but so what. Like Todd say's, if you are taking Druid to be uber than you are taking the wrong discipline, take Knight, Swashbuckler or some other combat oriented discipline. BTW only a few peoples IG history that I have heard could possibly fit in knight (person in direct military servitude to a monarch and homored for so) Mine, Roland's and Leeland's and none of us are knights. Possibly Arthos too but I haven't heard any of that in his past.
The only reason I suggested the slight change instead of a complete transformation is because of the having to remember multiple #s aspect involved and the size issue. If the rules are supposed to be simple then we need to keep that in mind when discussing them. That part doesn't neccesarily have to affect your role-playing, you can still play feral and such you just don't completely become an animal and change size, you guys removed Guthrie for just this reason.
Truthfully with this discipline there does need to be a balance with the other disciplines but it can be so much more than stats. And it should be much more than stats, same for a few of the disciplines. Role-playing shouldn't take a backseat to mechanics, and mechanics shouldn't take a backseat to possible role-playing aspects. Just because someone thinks that they would never use a discipline's 4th level skill doen't mean that someone else wouldn't think it was the neatest skill in the book. Hell I would never have had phase if it were still 4th level but now that I have it I think it kicks ass.
Todd I feel you man, I really do but I do think that dagger sized claws is "underpowered" and will end up just getting you shredded. Take a look at the reasoning I gave for my other suggestions a page back and I think you'll see that they are reasonable. If you guys want to go with a complete transformation then just say it and that part can be done with and we can move on.
The only reason I suggested the slight change instead of a complete transformation is because of the having to remember multiple #s aspect involved and the size issue. If the rules are supposed to be simple then we need to keep that in mind when discussing them. That part doesn't neccesarily have to affect your role-playing, you can still play feral and such you just don't completely become an animal and change size, you guys removed Guthrie for just this reason.
Truthfully with this discipline there does need to be a balance with the other disciplines but it can be so much more than stats. And it should be much more than stats, same for a few of the disciplines. Role-playing shouldn't take a backseat to mechanics, and mechanics shouldn't take a backseat to possible role-playing aspects. Just because someone thinks that they would never use a discipline's 4th level skill doen't mean that someone else wouldn't think it was the neatest skill in the book. Hell I would never have had phase if it were still 4th level but now that I have it I think it kicks ass.
Todd I feel you man, I really do but I do think that dagger sized claws is "underpowered" and will end up just getting you shredded. Take a look at the reasoning I gave for my other suggestions a page back and I think you'll see that they are reasonable. If you guys want to go with a complete transformation then just say it and that part can be done with and we can move on.
Death=Adder
One of these days...I'm going to cut you into little pieces...
~Pink Floyd~
One of these days...I'm going to cut you into little pieces...
~Pink Floyd~
Btw, I am really sick of hearing how you and Todd don't think I (or others) should be a knight (or how it is bad). I believe this topic is about Druid. Keep it there.
The extra minor ability is an annoyance for balance and adds little to the role-playing or mechanical aspect. Short sword sized claws is easy and not that under powered. Beyond that, I'm through with this topic.
The extra minor ability is an annoyance for balance and adds little to the role-playing or mechanical aspect. Short sword sized claws is easy and not that under powered. Beyond that, I'm through with this topic.
I never said that anyone shouldn't have knight, as a matter of fact I would expect you to have it. Not for role-playing purposes or because it fits in with your background though. If you read my post I clearly state that if you want combat disciplines kinght and things like that are what you take. You as we all know are in the game for the combat and there is nothing wrong with that.
Death=Adder
One of these days...I'm going to cut you into little pieces...
~Pink Floyd~
One of these days...I'm going to cut you into little pieces...
~Pink Floyd~
Thanks, Todd. I thought perhaps my email to you might have caused that post. Glad to see that's not the case.
I don't see anyone transforming into an animal for direct combat purposes (except maybe, well, a bear). If a wolf and a guy with a sword and shield go at it, my money's on the guy with the sword and shield. A wolf might complement another fighter, like by having the backstab ability, but it should never stand toe to toe in direct combat with an armed person. Without armor or a weapon that can parry attacks, an animal is going down pretty quickly.
Animal form would seem far more useful for its speed, ability to fit into small spaces, travel unrecognized, communicate with other creatures, etc.
I don't see anyone transforming into an animal for direct combat purposes (except maybe, well, a bear). If a wolf and a guy with a sword and shield go at it, my money's on the guy with the sword and shield. A wolf might complement another fighter, like by having the backstab ability, but it should never stand toe to toe in direct combat with an armed person. Without armor or a weapon that can parry attacks, an animal is going down pretty quickly.
Animal form would seem far more useful for its speed, ability to fit into small spaces, travel unrecognized, communicate with other creatures, etc.
Learn the past. Observe the present. Guide the future.
-
Azara Blackhawk
Brad, you are not the only one who is sensing the hostility. I'm getting that vibe from my work pc.
Can we please stay on the topic of druid and hash out this discussion towards a workable solution. Can we not please attack each other or skills our characters might have, for it is simply uncalled for and franky quite rude to not only the player being insulted, but to the rest of us who read this board.
Back to the druid topic.
I like Eric's ideas on druid. Another idea discussed for a 4th level druid disciplin is an advanced form of root basically like an imprision. It can be used to enclose an enemy for a few minutes or protect an ally from any further damaging attacks from said enemy. I'm thinking it would take like 30 seconds for the druid to charge and then be thrown in packet form.
It was just another idea that had been talked about.
I mean if you just want role-playing advanced level of druid then make it a pacify animal or something since druids are nature freaks even more so then scouts so they have a unique ability to calm wild animals down like bears, wolves, etc.
The other way is the size catagory of animal dictates what once can do at 4th level as Eric previously suggested.
All this makes sense and can not only be used for combat reasons, but role-playing ones as well thus finding common ground for both sides of the coin (the role-player and combat guy).
Can we please stay on the topic of druid and hash out this discussion towards a workable solution. Can we not please attack each other or skills our characters might have, for it is simply uncalled for and franky quite rude to not only the player being insulted, but to the rest of us who read this board.
Back to the druid topic.
I like Eric's ideas on druid. Another idea discussed for a 4th level druid disciplin is an advanced form of root basically like an imprision. It can be used to enclose an enemy for a few minutes or protect an ally from any further damaging attacks from said enemy. I'm thinking it would take like 30 seconds for the druid to charge and then be thrown in packet form.
It was just another idea that had been talked about.
I mean if you just want role-playing advanced level of druid then make it a pacify animal or something since druids are nature freaks even more so then scouts so they have a unique ability to calm wild animals down like bears, wolves, etc.
The other way is the size catagory of animal dictates what once can do at 4th level as Eric previously suggested.
All this makes sense and can not only be used for combat reasons, but role-playing ones as well thus finding common ground for both sides of the coin (the role-player and combat guy).
Last edited by Azara Blackhawk on Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
Todd
- Town Member
- Posts: 1111
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:03 am
- Location: somewhere making someone angry
OK, I tried to reply from work after Nelkies 'Debate' post. I have a long post in mind, but not enough time, Ill read it all in about 2 hours.
Most important; While I understand I piss people off (often), I rarely intend to do so. Nelkies got the right attitude, And I'll explain my point of veiw in a bit. Dont make Big Daddy Liedel censor you. He'll do it. Trust me on this one.
Back in a few
Most important; While I understand I piss people off (often), I rarely intend to do so. Nelkies got the right attitude, And I'll explain my point of veiw in a bit. Dont make Big Daddy Liedel censor you. He'll do it. Trust me on this one.
Back in a few