Offseason 05\06

[WayneO42]

Our weapons dont make real cuts. Our characters do not bleed when they are hurt. Most players do not role-play wounds. How is the healer supposed to know if someone is injured or not? The healer can do surgery but not be able to tell that Joe Schmoe got mauled by a bear? Aside from requiring the role-playing of wounds and lots of fake blood the only way to give healers a little bit of power to determine status is with a mechanic. They should never know life point totals, just severity of injury, are they poisoned, are they diseased.

The only problems with a Status check skill for healers has been because of detect lie. It seems to me that the real solution is to fix detect lie.

[GM-Mike]

My only point is that it is unnecessary. How does a healer know who needs healing? Well, after a battle, say, Who needs Healing? My guess is those that need healing will come forward. If they are unconscious, a private out of game chat about how the person looks should be fine. Cure disease and cure poison should discuss checking for those problems.

That said, if people want this, then detect lie HAS to be fixed. But don't tell me detect lie is great and we need it and then tell me we need this too. The two skills are incompatible in my opinion as they are currently stated. So, to the people who want both detect lie and a status check, come with your solutions.

[Onimaster]

To you Matt, the detect lie problem may be a hiccup but to me the condition problem is just as much a hiccup, you ask someone how far down they are so that the healer can get a gauge of how bad the body in front of him looks, a few slashes and burns or guts spilling out and burned to a crisp not to mention there's a skill that only works so far in negs. The system wide problem you are talking about that has been a "problem all this time" hasn't even been questioned until now, the same can be said for detect lie.

Okay, let me explain. I was trying to say that the whole condition/Detect Lie issue is well known and people know we know, and it's moot to bring it up again and again when we are talking about this as to whether or not it should be in the rules formally. If anything it will be corrected when we correct Detect Lie (if and when it happens).

I didn't say it had been a problem... I just don't like that we have globally adopted a rule that appears nowhere in the system as much as 'condition' has been without governing mechanics so no one really knows how it works or if it should work, but at the same time healers need it to perform their function saving lives... So it exists, but it doesn't. It's vital to the system, but people don't know how it works or even if it does work...

[Onimaster]

So, to the people who want both detect lie and a status check, come with your solutions.

Make Spy's 'total confidance' an immunity rather than a resist... easy.

[dier_cire]

Also for note, nowhere in the rules does it say a healer may determine someone's life total. So the checking of status' so far is garbage. Now if the accusers were to torture or the person (or suck their life with transfusion), and then heal them ask a question and then 1 damage them till they fall, they could determine lying but that's a bit extreme.

So in all honesty, the rules are fine. They just need to be enforced.

[Amagus]

A bit of added complication, but how about life lost due to non-injuries (lost through skill use) is not detectable by healers?

Though I also like the idea of an immunity to Detect Lie. It really brings out the "hey, he's a Spy - you can't trust anything his says" mentality in others.

[Atrum Draconus]

Ried, I'm not understanding what you're saying 2 minutes to heal to half heal to half in 2 minutes same thing. And the discussion is about changing the rule so that healers CAN tell what life you are at.

People keep saying only need to know in negs or not, unless it has changed I believe that part of the surgery skill can only work above -10 and when it drops below that you need the bag AND first Aid can only heal down to -2. Clearly the healer will need to know where they are in negatives and not just that they are in negs. As for poison and disease simply add that to the skill, give it a 5 count and call it a day.

I'm absolutely fine with the Spy being an immunity but then that brings in balance issues and it also means that all resist detect lie things would need to be collected from PC's and changed to reflect immunity and there would need to be a note somewhere that resist detect lie is not a viable option for an effect.

[Lambic]

First, the reason I agree this either needs to be put into rules or smacked down is that it is (if nothing else) confusing to new players.

ex. New healer Hypo sees Master Healer Cratic walk up to three PCs in various condition of un-well and commands "Status." They report he deals out healing. They leave. Hypo comes up to Cratic and says "Wow! How did you know how to deal with each individual and in what order? I couldn't see anything wrong with them." Cratic's answer "Uh, I just did." The PC playing Hypo then says "Out of game, where is 'Status' in the rules?" The PC playing Cratic says "Uh, its not."

And yes I've seen a more complicated version of this happen.

Another thing I haven't seen anyone mention is that there are other healing methods available to the Healer than was has been listed, some are linked to skills the Healer has. For example healing potions and the blood/tear/petrified things. Their four levels of healing potion available, it is sometimes in the best interest of the healer to use a potion to stabilize someone or even restore them instead of a more time consuming skill. I think a Healer should have a chance to evaluate an injury. I can understand not wanting to give them the exact numbers all of the time. I say it is simply an optional ability.

My pat answer if I was interested in keeping secrets would be something like "You see no visible signs of injury." or "S/He looks stressed but not show no outward signs of damage." Then I would find a healer I could trust to keep my secrets.

[Donovan Thynedar]

I'd agree that there's no reason for a healer to need a life total if the person is still positive. If the person wants the healer to know what condition they are in, they can tell them. If the healer wants to know, they can ask. Let roleplaying take care of it. A healer can ask "Condition?" and it's just a question. The subject is under no pressure to answer.

If a person is in negatives, however, it is very useful for the healer to know how far. The efficient use of skills and potions depends on knowing if someone is at -1 or -23. Call it a beneficial ability and allow the subject to refuse it if they so choose. I'd imagine something like this added on to the First Aid skill:

The Healer also has the ability to ascertain the status of a willing subject in negative health. This requires an uninterrupted five count and allows the Healer to determine the current life point total of a subject with negative life.

Thoughts?

[Ravinal]

To me, it seems somewhat strange that a person would lie about their condition.

"What's your condition"
-"Im at 5 out of 7 life points.."
"healing......"
-"Haha! You fool Im at 6 out of 7 life points!"
"Gasp!"

Lol. I sorry, just being goofy. I realize that it could be used to check whether a person is actually dieing, dead, or feigning death. Yet, how much has that actually been use it 'this' game. I do agree that if a person is unconiscous that it's really difficult to lie about your condition.

[Nelkie]

Here is my suggestion for the mechnics

1. The spy is immune to detect lie, move it to a 3rd level ablity

2. First aid: When touching a person and performing a 5 count, the healer can determine the status of a willing or unconious person. Status includes if you are unconious, at zero, how deep in negatives a person is, if diseased, if posioned, or in possitive life. Note: A person does not need to provide the healer their postive life total, but should roleplay out how wound they are. Example: I'm bleeding out across half of my body from this sword wound, I could some healing.

3. Surgery: A master healer just neeeds to touch a person to determine a person status. AKA does not require the 5 count

[dier_cire]

Ried, I'm not understanding what you're saying 2 minutes to heal to half heal to half in 2 minutes same thing.

The way you had it worded originally made it sound like if you were at half life and went to a healer, you would be fully healed in 2 minutes. That isn't true, and I wanted to make sure you weren't saying that. If you are at half life and go to a healer, it takes 4 minutes. If you are at 1 life, it takes 4 minutes. If you are at 99 of 100 , it takes 4 minutes.

[Onyksi Rin'oviryn]

The skill is second level but the counter is third? Not really agreeing with that idea.

[Kalphoenix]

I agree, a healer doesn't nessesarily need to know exact hitpoints for a person in positives, that is easy enough to roleplay in semi OOG, ie: "Ravinal is covered in animal-like gouges." I think in most cases people roleplay being wounded well enough.

Oh, also, I'm confused here, so maybe I can get a clarification, it might be in the rules and I misread it: Healing...when healing 2 minutes, the half heal, are you curing half the damage done, or are you curing half the character's total hitpoints? Example: Let's say Ravinal has 10 maximum hitpoints, and damage has taken him down to 2. When you perform a half heal, are you healing him to 5? Or are you healing him 4 points to a max of 6? I figured you are healing them to half of their max lifepoints, but I thought I'd ask now, for extra clarification.

I don't usually ask concious people their lifepoints, they come to me, or someone helps them over and says they need healing. When I heal, I note at the two minute mark that they are at half, and at the four minute mark they are at full. In this case, they don't have to reveal their total hitpoints to me, which is really none of my buisness, and wouldn't really change the way I heal.

Also, if a healer can cure poison and cure disease, can they detect these things? In a similar vein, could they tell what the wounds LOOK like? Not nessesarily what they are, but what they look like? (IE: Sword strike, an animal bite, choking?) This would be nice to know (and clarified in the rules), especially in cases of mysterious deaths, where it might initially look like something, but be something else if examined for a longer period of time.

I think that a healer should be able to detect the exact hitpoints of someone in negatives. It's nessesary to the method of healing. Someone in positives doesn't much change the method, so is not really nessesary.

I hope this post isn't too messy. I was thinking really hard and got muddled

[Onimaster]

The skill is second level but the counter is third? Not really agreeing with that idea.

What she said.