Path Updates

[Kalphoenix]

I'll get behind the idea that a healer might not know EXACTLY how many hitpoints someone has, but they should have a base idea. If this is an issue, why not make it a master healer ability to exactly assess an exact condition? A skilled healer SHOULD be able to assess an exact condition in a fantasy setting. If it's magical however, we can't detect it unless we have that ability, and that still doesn't give us the ability to fix it.

While I'm on that subject, why don't healer's heals get better (Just curious)? I mean, it's cool that a master healer can heal several people at once, but it would be more useful if a master healer was just that: A better healer than people with basic healing skills. I guess I've been thinking about this from the other thread where you guys are thrashing out how research should work. Rogues get better at knockout...warriors get abilities that stack and progressively get better (combat reflexes and vigor), Empaths get magic throws that get better. It seems like only healers and sages don't get any better at their crafts as they skill up.

I know everyone plays healers differently, but I don't play a healer towards the doctor sort of way, I play as the "mystical" or "white mage" sort. "Mystical healing is just a use of free or stored magic to help the physical body heal itself." (Pg 29)

I am surprised at how often people get into an argument about how healers can only stitch people up. The way the wording is, it's allowable to play it any way you want, within the rules. Personally...for severe injuries, especially those involving surgery, I usually picture Delayne cauterizing wounds. *sizzle* Which is why I'll assume you all yell "Dallid! Dallid!" for healing even when I am standing right there.

But this is about sages, so I'll try not to get too off track. Allowing sages to mimic a discipline or ability is fine...giving them an exact ability that another path has feels wrong to me. It feels like you are cheating them and whomever's path ability they are given.

Anyways, just my two cents. I'm sorry if this seems like a rant, it's not meant to be.

[Ian_McAllister]

One possible solution I think would be easy perhaps for Kalphoenix;'s suggestion on Healers getting better would be to take Mass heal.. change it perhaps to Master Healing , keep it the same except for an addition that if a healer concentrates all their attention on one target they can cut the time to heal them in half.. eg.. it only takes one minute to bring them to 1/2 and two minutes to bring them to full.. but only if they are healing one person.. in a healing circle it is still 2/4 minutes.

This would show some improvement in healing as you advance.. it would still make a healing circle be better than individual healing... and the basic healing ability while useless to Master healers, is still of huge benefit to a Sage that may need to Mimic it, or someone that wants to just get the basics of healing.. but if you want to be healed quickly you go to a Master.

Suggestions...

[Onimaster]

I think Sages are mostly good the way they are... Though their Advanced level skills could use a little help. I say up Waylay to a 4 knockout instead of 1, and make their tactics combat reflexes 2 instead of 1. That would add a little umph without breaking them.

I am down with Chris adding the text of 'asses condition' to the first aid skill. This would let healers feel useful in knowing EXACTLY how hurt someone is, and people can buy that skill with 20 points and be able to do it. Anyone can look at someone laying on the ground moaning and know something is WRONG, but only a trained healer might be able to tell someone had cracked ribs and internal bleeding while they are unconscious.

And I was thinking... The only way I would support another new path is if 'Jack of all trades' had florentine in it as a path feature.

[Ian_McAllister]

One thing Matt... the Sage skill is a Knockout .. not a Backstab.

[GM_Chris]

I should say nothing is going to change much if at all when it comes to paths or we would have to stop our plans for chapter expansion. Our goal now is to tweek ever so subtle in an attempt to never change them again.


Now sage is new so I am up for talking about sage tweeks. (4 knockout is NOT a tweek it is a 400% adjustment)

The thing about the advanced skills is they are meant to be used in conjunction with mimic. You have a situation that requires more armor then use mimic and a sage buff with your already combat reflexes. Need knockout then mimic, with waylay, with sage buff to knock people out quicker.

Caught off guard? Well heck you still have a 1 knockout that allows you to cut SEVERAL hits off a person.

Sage is a great path to couple with other disciplines like knight or monk or some other discipline. There is just alot of possibilities.

ONE thing I can definitly get behind and this is to help direct your thinking is at the beginner path skills for sage. I can definitly see an argument to add something there.

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Now as for backstab again I can see an argument for getting rid of the target, but from an NPC stand point I have seen backstab work about how I would expect itto work. It hasannoyed me greatly and has killed me often. Again though I am open to conversation about getting rid of the target.

[Claude du Sinjin]

I have to admit, when you have various 4th lvl abilties such as Archer, Grenadier, and Druid (5 crush ability) that do not need targets to charge it does seem a little silly that a Master Rogue does.

Perhaps a change that when a rogue reaches Master, their BS no longer requires a target. This would keep them from being overpowered when looking at lower lvl abilities such as 3rd lvl Pikeman (Impale - reqs target) and more balanced on the high end.

Also,

Caught off guard? Well heck you still have a 1 knockout that allows you to cut SEVERAL hits off a person.

I'll admit, I don't understand where this comment is coming from. Yes, the KO ability allows you to drop an enemy quicker as you don't have to go through their life points. But it has a 15 sec charge time, for 1 point of KO. Most enemies, once they've lost their armor are dead before I can see this being truly effective. I realize this is meant to be combined, but still strikes me as weak for a 2nd tier ability.

[Ian_McAllister]

I guess my biggest part of the argument is the fact that a Rogue needs both a target to charge, and has to hit a specific spot on the target as well.. both combined have in my use in the game very much lowered their possible effectiveness.,.. except when dealing with players.. where you have a better chance ot set the field.. with most NPC's that is not an option.

[Peace420]

I played a rogue for 3 years and I never had a problem getting off backstabs, I even get off sleeps sometimes in combat, now that is hard 30 seconds and a target. Master Backstab does 12 damage, in this system that is huge it should be pretty hard to do that. And you do have 2 other backstab skills to use, you don't always have to do the master because it's there. Personally I think Rogue is fine, I didn't like the move of all trap stuff at all to advanced but thats the way it is and it isn't underpowered.

[Nelkie]

Here is an idea for helping out sage.

Add this skill to Level 1 sage, but as the last skill

Basic Mimic
With this skill the Sage may mimic ANY first level Path skill. It takses a half an hour to receive the skill, but the skill lasts until
you mimic a different skill. Any armor restriction of the mimicked skill does apply.

Now change mimic skill to master mimic skill
With this skill the Sage may mimic ANY first or second level Discipline or first level Path skill except for wilderness survival, Alchemy, and Arcane. It takes a 15 minutes to receive the skill, but the skill lasts until you mimic a different skill. Any armor restriction of the mimicked skill does apply. The time to learn a new skill with Basic Mimic is lowered to 15 minutes.

So a master sage can learn 2 new skills in 1/2 hour.

[GM_Chris]

Your saying that the sage could would be granted 2 free skills? Basically handing them 40 to 80 points

[Nelkie]

They are not free, because it's part of the path. If you want, remove waylay and repalce it with basic mimic. It gives the sage a very well rounded feel and does not seem ungame balanced. The first level of sage seems light on roleplayable skills and that is why I suggested basic mimic would be a first level ability.

Don't get me wrong, I think sage is a cool path, but when compared to the others, it still needs something.
Thief can walk through traps and drop people with a hit
Empath can resurect people and throw masive amount of damage
Warrior can swing and take much damage
Healers can bring people from the dead and heal almost any illness or damaged body
Sage can mimic a simple skill, and ask for hints, great, but limited.

[Eilonwy]

I'm intrigued with the Jack of All Trades suggestion from WayneO. Any ideas on possible skills for that? A mimic type still makes sense. Also, florentine would be cool to have in it, especially since it's currently swash only. Even if this was for balancing out lifestyles, I still was a bit bummed that aristocrats can't do it. Been watching too many old movies with swashbuckling nobles I guess.

As for Waylay, haven't tried it yet, even though I could do the Valk, Waylay, mimic, sap combo. Whether kept as is or replaced completely, doesn't matter that much either way to me.

At the very least, maybe tweaking the basic Sage would help I agree.

[GM_Chris]

Wayne has wanted sage as its own discipline for a bit.


I am not against it if we had another year for testing. At the moment I could only be in favor of small changes. I guess I could even be convinced of Aaron's suggestion

Chris

[Todd]

I've been back for 10 minutes and I already have a headache.

[GM_Chris]

Fear the rule boards