Path Updates

[Nelkie]

Here are some observations on the current paths:

Rouge: It is my opinon that the knock out skill is under powered. The max is 9 knock out, but a person can easly go beyond that number
10 heavy armor
3 quality
6 warrior combat reflexs
2-4 from displines
2 from sage buff

A max total of 23-25 armor is possible.

I believe the knock skills should be increased to 4 to 5 points per level for a max of 12 to 15 knock out at a master rouge. I would keep the valkiers back stab ability at 3 and the backstab commidity sword at 3, so the max would be 18-21.

Sage: I believe sage is still underpowered. Yes they have many skills, but many of are used only once a year if that.
Skills not used very much if at all
Sages knock out, it is to low to be useful, needs to be increased to knockout 3-5
Decipier script - might be used once or twice per event by a sage or 2. It is a good skill, but not used very offten, and only by a selecet few sages.
Adminster potion, good skill, but again, not used very often. Need a potion to use it.

Ideas how to round out the sage
Give first level healing to the sage as a second tier skill moving the +1 combat relfex to the first teir sage skills
Increase the knock damage for the sage
Allow the sage mimic 2nd level disaplines
Or a mix of these

Just getting ideas out there

So what are peoples opinions?

[GM-Mike]

Knockout was never intended to be able to take out someone in quality heavy armor. It is a strategy skill, wait for the opportunity to strike, wait for the enemy to be weak, and then take your shot. If you could take out most anyone then it is WAY overpowered because all sleep effects are possible death effects. As it is, you can take out a lot of people, as in those who are not warriors in heavy quality armor.

I agree that the Sage Waylay is useless...unless you mimic basic Knockout and then see argument above. I suppose we may have to look at Sage again, but I do have to say that about half the sages really like it, or at least that's my impression. From those who don't like it, what are you hoping that Sage will do, both philosophically and skill-wise?

[GM_Chris]

Just wanted to mention that Mike is right on with knockout. If you could have a 21 knockout then why play an assassin??

[Onimaster]

Yes, about the only thing I think could be debated is on if knockout should need a taget to charge or not. I think it's arguable, and that some other charge skills should need a target (like archery).

[Claude du Sinjin]

After yet another night of wearing that thick-ass leather armor, I would once again like to argue for armor being worth more defense points. But that's just my opinion.

[cole45]

I'm luke warm on armor being worth more, but I am pro armor type for helmets.

[Zydana]

As for the decipher script, I've never used it but I'm glad it's there in case I do need to use it. (Still waiting on a GM answer if Sages can mimic Sage abilites.. it's not on the exclusion list. Also waiting on what would be the difference between mimicing read/write VS decipher script)

Administer potion - I actually used that A LOT last event. Mostly by smart people who realized what it did and that I could do it. "Will you help me drink this potion?"

I agree the sage knockout is useless unles you mimic the rouge ability.. but then I feel it's still kinda weak. *shrug*

I do want to input that being a newbie sage (first event) is really boring unless you take a more exciting disipline. The only basic ability that you can use in game is read/write. I'd like to see a 4th basic ability that will help a newbie sage feel a bit more useful and sage-like.

[WayneO42]

I was thinking that maybe we want to change sage to "Jack of all trades". Then take Read/write, research, recall, and decipher script out of the JOAT path (To be replaced with new skills) and tweak them to make a Sage discipline. Thoughts?

[Zydana]

I don't know if I like that idea. I really enjoy playing a sage how it is. I think it could use a bit of tweaking.. but not a complete overhaul. I think the number of charaters that for some reason or another do not wish to battle (both people who wear a white sash, and those who don't), are growing. Have you seen how many people spend most of their time in or around the inn? Sage is a good path for some those people. Please, we need at least one or two paths that are for those that don't go out to battle.

[Nelkie]

My feeling on knockout is it is to easy for a person to have combat reflexs now and knockout does not take that into account. Yes a rouge should not be able to take a person in full armor out, but a warrior knight with a sage buff can resist a master rouge without any armor on. Doesn't that seem wrong? By increaeing it by 1 point per level the standard would be 12 and the max would be 18. Sacry, but easly protected with armor. This is just my 2 cents.

As for sage, I would keep it as is with some minor tweaks. It is a good path and fun to play, but some minor tweaks would just make it better. I really like the idea of the sage haveing the healing ablity. No way comparable to the healer, but it just gives the sage 1 more thing they can do that is not direct combat related, but very useful.

[GM-Mike]

Well you can mimic healing...I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a two tier mimic ability where the earlier version, maybe Basic so Sages can do something early on, would give you a first level discipline or path and the the master would give you a second level discipline (but not an advanced level Path). This would give the Sages two skills they could mimic.

Still not sold on the Knockout issue. I don't think you should be taking anybody out at full strength. It's only after they have been weakened that you should be able to finish them off so to speak. The reason the warrior can do what you say is because we took away all of their armor bonuses and just made it combat reflexes to come in line with other paths that do not require items for skills to work (ie armor). So it doesn't actually seem all that wrong to me. If we raise it to a max of 18, then everybody in game is going to need quality armor.

The test should not be: What can a full, healthy warrior be able to withstand, with or without armor. If you want to take out a warrior, get him down a ways and then knock him out. Like Chris said, this is not Assassinate. Instead, Look at the other paths that perhaps have armor restrictions built in. How many healers can take a 12 knockout? None of them. That ain't good. And thus it would be overpowered

[Lao]

Here is what I would like to see the sage move more towards.

Basic skill: Augury/Portent

After 5 minutes of contemplation, investigation, or divining the sage may ask a simple yes/no question of a GM related to the current situation.

Advanced skill: Divinations (Replace Waylay)

The sage is now more advanced in pulling answers from their knowledge source, be it divinations, seeing stones, memory recall, etc etc. After 5 minutes of contemplation, investigation, or divining the sage may ask a yes/no question much like Augury. However they may recieve more then just a yes or no answer to the question with this skill. Alternatively this skill may be used to request a hint on a riddle or puzzle instead of asking a yes/no question.

Master Skill: Inspiration
With this skill the master sage is truly an awe inspiring being to behold in action. By spending a life point the sage may remove the time component from any path skills they possess.


Flame away
Evan

[Peace420]

Mike is right on IMO, a full warrior knight in heavy shouldn't be used as the basis for comparison because that represents the outside of what is possible to do. I think the knockout change make sleep more like it should have been from the start.

As far as Sages,
Haha while I was posting Alendark posted some of what I was thinking, the portent and divination only I'd replace the tactics.

I don't like the instant skill thing cause thats what the hero pts do. But I would give the sage another research skill something like.

Bookworm: The sage can now research multiple things (3) as effectively as basic research does. Or they can get research on one thing done quicker. This also increases the likelyhood that you will get results on researching something extremely difficult.

I'd also make the change to decipher script that if the sage has accumulated a translation page of atleast 100 words for a language that they can use that to decipher somehing in 15 minutes instead of the hour.

And possibly change mimic to any 2nd level or lower and include the must observe the skill back into it.

[GM_Chris]

We come up with all the sage hints before the event for all the plots. That way you dont have: Go to Chris he gives good hints.

Hints from a GM perspective SUCK!

[Nelkie]

Ok, I see your point on knock out. I just surprised the thiefs didn't say anything for or against the idea. So the max knockout a person can have is 15. I can get behind that.

Mike, I like the idea of a 2 different mimic skills. I think that would round out the sage very well

The idea of
[i]Master Skill: Inspiration
With this skill the master sage is truly an awe inspiring being to behold in action. By spending a life point the sage may remove the time component from any path skills they possess. [/i]

The idea is good, but very game unbalanced. I would gladely spend 1 life point to heal a person or myself instantly or be able to throw 8 booms in an instant. It is to powerful and way better than any hero point. Not to mention instant decipier script, instant mimic, instant buffing, etc...