Open Issues


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Post Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:10 pm

Open Issues

Here is a start of some open issues that have been poping up during the game.

1. How does on make a lash trap (what resources are needed)

2. How does a perosn research arcane spell/alchemy potion in between events

3. What type of things can we purchase with our resources. (aka a better forge, bigger grainery, a libary, etc..) and if so what is the benifit if any.

4. Additional spells and alchemy reciepes for 4th level arcanes and alchemist.

5. What is the benifit for having a quality wweapon. Unshaterable is not to useful. If is less expexive time wise to make another sword. 6 hrs vrs 1500 hrs.

6. Can a craftsman make quality shields, and if so what is the benifit?

7. Need a major overhaul of the resources system

8. Is there a resource benifit for being a savsage aka less food, no shelter, etc

9. All charged skills will be negated when the person is hit. Stops sucided nerve pinch runs.

10. Add and fix the guild benifits (currently there is 2 damage bonus to boom ability at level 5) Additioanl 4th level guild bonus to repalce the ones lost.

11. When is allgeince recieved when a charcter goes a level. At the end of event or the begining of the next?

12. Arcane system needs to be placed into the book?

13. How does muliple charcaters work with spending allgence points and counting toward a member of guilds?

14. Beserk is a non funcitional skill. It is not useful in combat and the negative is to harsh to make it very useful for a 3rd level path ability. Eric used it on friday night and the benifit was no great than him being at full power. What the issue is he had to be non combative for 1/2hr. Looking at it for negative vers benifit it would be better to drop, drink a potion or two and contunie to fight. Or if you need to run away use determination to get out of a tight situation. There is very few times where a warrior will use beserk.

15. taking weapons and armor from fallen foes and changing it to useable resources. An idea is the craftsman can get X amount of resources from a weapon or armor based on level of craftsman and weapon or armro type.
The X would be a percentage, round down. But to do this takes time and needs to be done inbetween events.
level 1 10%, Level 2 15% Level 3 25% Level 4 50%
Level 4 craftsman can change a suit of full plate into 15 metal tokens.

16. The time shift spell is to powwerful. Instead of a resist effect, change it to a specific (posion, damage, magic, sleep. etc). Note the a warrior cannot rage with the spell on them

17. repair of armor is broken. Not enough resources are being used. Change the field reapir to the armor is fix up to 1/2 of its value round up. This can be done 4 times before resources must be spent. the timeit takes to filed repair is less than forge repair. ex ; 12/6/3/2/fix

18. What are the benifits of being a house head and how do houses work?

As I think and soem others I will psot them
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Post Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:49 pm

Yeah, forgot to mention the berserk/endurance thing earlier. After using berserk, I can honestly say I would never use it again, nor did I. 30 minutes or 15 minutes is not worth the ability to fight for a few seconds longer. Especially when that time must be taken immediately.

Both endurance and berserk need some changes, not sure what these should be off hand but at a minimum they need the timers removed. On paper this made sense, but practical application has proved otherwise. Basically +1 damage for 30 seconds is not worth 30 minutes doing nothing. And -1 damage for 30 seconds is definitely not worth 15 minutes. (damages are so because you'll already be raging)

I'll brain storm some ideas and see what I can come up with.
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Post Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:51 pm

Berserk I don't think was meant to be the end all be all combat skill, and if you don't have any potions to drink or someone is pounding on you and you can't drink a potion then continuing to fight in negatives and getting a bonus to your damage is huge. If you choose to never use the skill again so be it but i don't really think compared to the rest of the master path skills it's pretty balanced.

Armor and resources, that is a matter of opinion really it is extremely costly for us people in light armor to get it fixed to full for the little benefit that you get from it. I am still of the mind that the cost to repair should be different for each type of armor but I've been saying that since the beginning and it doesn't look like that is going to change.

I also don't see why there needs to be a mechanical advantage to things like Alchemy labs and such it may not seem like much now but where does it end. If we build a library should sages get a bonus? If we build barracks should warriors get a bonus? If we build a triage center or hospital should healers get a benefit? I just think that there has been a bad precedent set with the mechanical bonus for an alchemy lab.

Other concerns:

Still think taunt is much much too powerful for a 1st level discipline especially combined with disarm and the ability to do vorpal damage. If the wording were changed from must attack to cannot attack anyone else that would be more in line with a first level discipline but as it is ot's more of a specilaized suggestion from a master healer that doesn't take a breaking time or being very good at what you do.
Last edited by Peace420 on Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:01 pm

RE

I think there is just WAY too much metal and not enough hide out there. If there was a truck load of hide in the economy then it would be cheap to repair your armor.

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Post Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:21 pm

If someone is pounding on you, you won't swing more damage since you will be past -10 before you call 4 once. As for a huge bonus, I would love to see the acutal application of that. The point in time where this skill would ever be used is in a race to zero hitpoints style combat and you will swing 4 maybe 3 times before falling. That or you happen to go into negatives fighting the last member of a group of monsters and no more will show up for a half an hour (unlikely). Honestly, unless you've used it in-game there is no way to say how useful it is. It's like me saying backstab is overpowered.

The taunt, disarm, vorpal is only usable as a pc killing tool. Try it on a bear. You die. Try it with two on one, you die. It is a very specialized situation where it is usable. Sorta like ToD or Nerve pinch.
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Post Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:03 pm

Many people that have not used ToD at all have weighed in on how they thought it was overpowered or how it should work including you.

My only concern with Swashbuckler at all is that taunt is too powerful for a 1st level discipline the way that it is. Look at the rest of the first level disciplines and you'll see that none of them allow you to affect anyone the way that taunt does. Not only can you make someone stop doing what they are doing to attack you but you can keep them from doing anything else but attacking you, that is much more than any other 1st level skill can do.

As for the PVP thing try and sleep a construct or a few other things that get immunity to sleep, you die just the same. Peoples concerns with ToD were PVP not vs NPC so why should PVP not be considered for taunt. I've pretty much stopped trying to ToD any NPC that isn't a plain human because it never works on anything else and with resist effect it has become pretty useless.

Note: Taunt has no armor resrictions so in essence a full path warrior in full plate can taunt. OVERPOWERED
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Post Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:46 pm

Only glanced at the list, I'll look more later. The one thing that caught my eye was, Multiple Characters. Multiples may or may not be a part of the same guild, we havent decided yet, However.... Multiple Characters CANNOT use there Allegence in the same organization, i.e. the same guild. As long as no one is 'Cheesy' about it, I dont see why both Characters couldnt be in the same guild, as long as only one is spending their Allegence points. The 'Cheese' rule prevents one Guild of PCs from making second Characters, making a seperate Guild, then using both Guilds to create a House. As long as no-one entertains that Idea, I see no reason to make an official rule against it.

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Post Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:08 pm

In addition to some of Nelkie's comments...

#5 - I didn't realize it was possible to make an unshatterable weapon. Does that mean you could call vorpal, crush, or parry anytime you wanted by spending a life point?

#7 - I certainly agree that something has to be done about the resource system, but I don't know enough about it to say if it needs to be overhauled or clarified.

#12 - Yes please. A primer on the arcane system would be a big help. Hell, after the first of the year I'd even volunteer to help write it up if need be.

#15 - More resource stuff. Once we get things sorted out with our system, this kind of thing deserves attention as well.

#16 - I don't think so. It seems to me that having a one-use blanket resist allows for the players to attempt some more heroic actions. If it's used against an NPC, they can always hit them again (see Drake on saturday night, -24 in no time flat) and against a PC that should be the chance you take. There are quite a few skills that can completely disable someone, and having a single chance to not be nerve pinched or stun struck can mean the difference between life and death sometimes.
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Post Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:16 am

Qwick responses to Taki's responses;

#5; No, it just mean your weapon cannot be shattered by creatures or skills that inflict such damage. I agree that looking at the times is neccessary.

#7; Clarifications. The system and rules are already in place, we just didnt persue them heavily so to consentrte on other details. The system will be firmly in place at the begining of next season.

#12; Likewise. The rules, and details for the book are prepared. (at one time they were actually in the book, but that V. of the rules disappeared) The system, and its write-up will be in the book, before the years end.

#15; It adds a level of complexity to the game that I for one am not a big fan of, but its definately something to look into.

#16; We're going to be looking at this one 'very' closely. The staff seems split on how any 'resist' type spells, and/or potions should be handled. I personally feel that having to choose between the types of damage you want to resist keeps up the general 'fear for life' that we've tried hard to cultivate. In my opinion they would be devided into three catagories. Magic, Alchemical, and Melee. Again though, this may be an unneccessary complexity. I just dont like the blanket "Resist Everything". Also keep in mind.. Whats good for the PC's is good for the NPC's. Something to think about.

more later....
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Post Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:11 am

Moe Questions

#19 Is there any benifit to have a heavy quality helmet? Right now there is no reason to make a heavy quality helmet.

#20 What can resist a nerve pinch? A resist sleep, resist damage, etc. Every other effect has some type of resist, expect nerve pinch


Replying to question #6 The reason for changing the spell is it is only a seound levdl arcane spell. I can see a resrit effect spell for a 4th level spell, not a level 2.

Replying to building, labs and libarys giving small bonus. It is a way to stimulate resource spending and get an ecomony going. The bonus need to be small. Why else would a person build a lab if it did not help them in some way. But rember the labs and such are stationary, need to be protected, and can be destroyed, which would be a great lost of resources. This concept is in the game already, grainery (extra food), forge (need to reapir armor with new resources), etc...

As for repairing armor. A set number of resources to reapir plate vrs light should stay the same. The material volume for both are the same. But I agree with Chris that hide is some much easier to get than metal. This event gave out 4 times more hide than metal.
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Post Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:24 am

It's true I have remarked on ToD. However, I have tried to keep in the realm of what I thought ToD was vs, how it works mechanically in game (ie I've always considered ToD a touch specific place vs anywhere on the body). Granted I never fought very hard for it, since I don't use the skill, nor has it been abused.

Taunt is kinda powerful but, the person will be attacking you. You are inviting someone to swing damage at your person. That's kind of a negative. I do agree that the armor restriction needs to be applied for the whole discipline. Pretty sure I've mentioned that in the past.

My point about the combo being PvP only is basically it's not any better than ToD or Nerve Pinch (actually it takes longer and more hits, plus the person can yell) and costs effectively the same. And the Resist Effect problem exists for it too.

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Post Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:45 am

The growing list ... :)

Keep them coming.

I went over aaron's first list yesterday and put together some more detailed materials. As for forges/labs etc. You need a forge to make weapons/armor and I am all for needing a lab to make 3rd and 4th level potions. In addition, we are talking about some benefits to research/casting with an arcane lab. The benefit of a library is entirely in game, you can look crud up and say "oh we saw that ugly before, here's what they did last time." Other things to get may be an advanced forge, that would reduce the time to make larger items by letting two people work on them, draft animals for the peasants, so they can be more productive, kilns for glassblowing/pottery for the alchemy and arcane labs (not to mention cups/goblets) a refinery near a mine for better ore production, etc. These things will have a base cost to establish, and probably an upkeep as well... for example a forge might take a certain amount of wood per event to make charcoal to keep the fires going.

This stuff is just conjecture... it is all still waiting approval. Additionally, we started on a rough trade/fence list for things players are often going for.

What else can I tell you....

Ah, arcane: All the spells will not go into the book. You may get a general description of the mechanics and how being an arcane works, but the book will probably only have a couple (like 2) spell examples, the rest will all be found on scrolls in game. So it may be a good idea to form an arcane library just so you have broader access to spells, your choice of course.

Well, that should keep you salivating for a while. Of course, not everyone will be totally into resource management, but those of you who aren't don't have to be, aside from managing to get enough to feed yourself, repair your gear, and take shelter. However, for those of you who are interested, there should be more than enough stuff coming up to spend copious ammounts of resources on.

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Post Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:48 am

If Resist Effect stays a second level spell I wanna change to an Arcane, I haven't used my tertiary discipline yet. I can't believe that is a second level spell, resist sleep potion is 4th how much sense does that make. I thought that the whole point of this game was that it would be very deadly. You can have Arcane as a tertiary discipline and get a resist effect? how deadly can anything be when it's that easy to resist absolutely anything.

That combo is a little different because there is no charge time and if the resist effect is used to resist the taunt or the disarm the other still gets off and taking vorpal damage still happens, once you resist a Nerve Pinch or ToD you've got a guy swinging 1 in med or light armor that is probably trying to run away from you.
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Post Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:16 pm

Resist Effect

Just and FYI for the players. The resist has been talked about, and is still being talked about, by the marshalls for the past two events. There is a general consensus that it is too powerful and we are working on alternate ways to fix it.

A couple of them include requiring a quest material component: for example the scale of a drake-kin such as a wyvern or basilisk that is undamaged and in perfect condition (i.e. even after killing one, or raiding its lair you aren't going to find five hundred of them lying about) Then players have to put themselves at risk just to be able to cast the spell.

However, in general the agreement is that level 2 is too low for that, I thought it was level three to begin with, and even at level 3 we were talking about adding the component.

Other suggestions included bumping it to fourth level; making it resist only one effect, chosen in advance; getting rid of the spell completely etc. Arcane and alchemy will both be reviewed ad nauseum before the next event, and the process is already underway.

Keep the suggestions coming,

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Post Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:34 pm

On the armor I think Chris was saying the opposite of what you're saying Aaron, he is saying that there is alot of metal out there and not nearly as much hide. Hide is easier to attain for now though.

If you look at it logically it only makes sense that it would take less to repair lighter armor. Light leather would be thinner leather and use less total leather than Med leather. To repair a chain shirt would be much less metal than to repair a plate breast and arms. But, since there is no difference in how much it takes to make each type logistically not logically it does make sense to have the resources to fix it the same.
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