Samurai discipline


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Post Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:36 am

Samurai discipline

I feel like the first level ability doesn't fit at all; Spend an essence to swing a 2 magic.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I think giving Samurai Press instead would fit much better.
Or if you wanted to go with the idea that Samurai are learned warriors you could give them Cultural Lore as opposed to press.

I also feel that It would be reasonable for the samurai to have duel wield. Although I suppose if we were thinking traditional samurai Use Bow would make sense too but I'm not a fan of that idea myself.

Granted the discipline is very powerful as is. My main gripe is the first level ability. I really would like to see it changed to Press.

Especially since there is NO Privileged discipline that gives press at this time. So basically unless you take the boon, or a racial discipline, you won't be getting Press if your lifestyle is privileged.

Just some thoughts I had about the discipline this morning.

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Post Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:41 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

this is warrior syndrome, it has parry so most of its other skills are bad, because they can be. but it has vorpal with a sword, and parry!
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Post Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

I feel like the first level ability doesn't fit at all; Spend an essence to swing a 2 magic. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


this isn't warrior syndrome (and im not sure what that is) or any syndrome, its perception.

The statement is being made due to the PERCEPTION, that this one discipline should encompass all that are attributed to iconic samurai, and seen by cinematic portrayals. The issue is that not all samurai used bows, most never even considered dual weapons which was seen as aberrant by all but a small segment, or ever attained the super warrior level of skill seen in media like Last Samurai.
If you wanted to copy such a samurai skill set; you would indeed need a warrior path PC with Samurai 4, Archer 4, and likely also Captain 3 or 4.
Possibly even more.

Giving them press, which is a skill to represent rough shield and shoulder bash style of combat, is essentially the OPPOSITE of the Kenjutsu paradigm. You say a magic strike attack doesn't fit, but I say using Essence (Ki to a samurai) to empower your blade to strike as if it was enchanted and be able to hard creatures not harmed by non magic weapons, fits perfectly n a fantasy setting.


So basically unless you take the boon, or a racial discipline, you won't be getting Press if your lifestyle is privileged.


or take the cross training perk...all of which make sense for the theme of privileged lifestyle.

As far as press not showing up in privileged combat disciplines, I would have to say that's because that lifestyle would, thematically, not peruse such a gruff and "savage" for of combat generally. Even knights generally didn't use shields in the same brutal manner as say Myrmidons or Saxons.
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Post Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

I have heard several people complain about Samurai's first level so it will be looked at. Brian does have our rationale correct for the skill when he talks about using essence/ki to power a blade.
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Post Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:06 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

HAH....now I have proof Mike! I have now copied and stored a picture of the post where you said I was right about something....and its all Vivac's fault. I knew if I was patient...one day...you sir...would FALTER!
*does a victory dance*
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Post Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:13 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

funny enough those are not face gif's that's literally his dance. . .I have seen it O_o
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
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Post Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:07 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

Just for funzies, I went looking for the original write up for samurai. The first level discipline allowed them to fight with 2 fists, but could not use them to block and you took damage if your fist phys reps were hit (I think this was the same as brawler ambidextrous?)

Also, the 4th level allowed the samurai to do a lash press. (There is no way they're getting that back. Don't bother asking about it)
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Post Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

funny enough those are not face gif's that's literally his dance. . .I have seen it O_o


Damnit you said you wouldn't tell....that's what I get for trusting friggan pirates...

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Post Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:38 am

Re: Samurai discipline

maybe you could change the name to ki strike because DRAX DOES NOT GET METAPHORS.
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Post Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

I like Samurai 1 in principle. I'm always for the 'Zen Warrior' aspect. I can also see where those who swing passive damage higher than '1' would find it lackluster, but it is still a first level discipline ability that allows instant '2 Magic' through a sword.

That being said, I'd be totally ok with swapping it with Press, and there is a historical aspect of it. There's a segment in Miyamoto Mushashi's "Book of the Five Rings" dedicated to a shoulder-check that, when done correctly, supposedly sent grown men flying. I also agree that having access to 'Press' in the privileged lifestyle outside of essence boon would be nice.
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Post Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:48 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

While that does exist in the book of 5 rings, he is also credited as developing nitōichi or "two swords as one" combat style, which was also an aberrant paradigm.

My earlier post was meant to state that press was divergent from the core samurai styles philosophy. Would a small number of them use such tactics, likely. Was it taught as samurai cannon, not in the main stream dojo culture.

Would it cause the end of reality for samurai to have press, no. It just doesn't fit the theme of the discipline; and there are three ways a privileged PC can get press if they wish it.

I would suggest the following as alternative (in order of most thematic to least...in my opinion):

Use Bow
Enchant Weapon
Vigor
Stun Strike
Cultural Lore
Income
Taunt
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Post Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:05 am

Re: Samurai discipline

If you're really against giving them press, which I see you are, I suppose giving them Enchant Weapon would be a much better skill than the current first level and it still gives that Ki use.
I still don't really see why you have such a stubborn stance against giving them press when all of our reasoning for giving them the skills we feel they should have is the same.

I get you don't feel the role play makes sense for them, but think of the samurai out maneuvering their opponent to make them move where they want them to. The skill in the game to mechanically do this is press.
It does not have to be a brutal shield bash attack.

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Post Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:40 am

Re: Samurai discipline

In case there is confusion, Brian doesn't make any of the rules :D

I'm not necessarily against Press. We'll discuss it at our next meeting

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Post Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:14 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

perhaps a new concept FH could adapt is the "add your base damage to this call" ?

so if you did 2 and used ki strike your hit would be "4 magic"

this could also be applied to other skills such as the warrior lash, etc. base damage ratios might need to change but scaling and effectiveness across different play styles would increase.
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
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Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
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Post Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: Samurai discipline

If you're really against giving them press,


Because as I explained, it doesn't fit. It would be like giving Paladin a soul drain power or Undead Hunter the ability to control golems. It just doesn't belong if your trying to represent an iconic samurai.

In addition, there are already THRE WAYS for a samurai to get press. Also. I feel press goes against the privileged paradigm for combat.


I still don't really see why you have such a stubborn stance against giving them press when all of our reasoning for giving them the skills we feel they should have is the same.


I am unsure when we(those in the US) acquired the notion that just because everyone/the majority wants something...that's its correct or right. That just isn't logical. Even if you all agree on the reasons, you can all be wrong.
Now like I said before, would it be terrible...no. Would I rage against such a change, nope. You did, however, ask me the whys...so I am giving them to you.


I get you don't feel the role play makes sense for them, but think of the samurai out maneuvering their opponent to make them move where they want them to. The skill in the game to mechanically do this is press.


1) press does not represent out maneuvering an opponent, since out maneuvering an opponent would require the samurai to move also.

2) Trying to tie the press mechanic to out maneuvering an opponent is simply stretching in order to get a desired skill easily, and not a good stretch.


In case there is confusion, Brian doesn't make any of the rules :D

WHAT?!?!? When was THAT decided and why did I NOT get the memo. I thought this was all about ME!
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