Armor Upkeep

[GM_Chris]

We really want to get rid of armor upkeep but we have the problem..yet again.. of what do we do with real versus fake armor.

For example, if there is no upkeep then the nekkid guy in the loin cloth could say "Hey I want this loin cloth to count as full plate on every location" and he gets it with no penatly? Does this seem fare? Should it even be allowed?

The pros to allowing fake armor is it makes the game cheaper for people who do not want to shell out 250 bucks for full armor. Why 250 because I would consider a 40 point chain mail shirt that goes half way down your arm and down to your knees every location (minus head) heavy armor.

I would consider alluminum chain over a seuade shirt medium

I would onsider alluminum chain with hardened leather over top of it heavy

I consider light leather light.

so keep that in the back of your mind when you talk about this as I do not want to get into a debate on what is real heavy versus fake as much as I want to discuss what should you give as a bonus to those who wear the real stuff.

Thanks

[Anon]

My thought on the matter is that this is how it should be:

1. Locations must be armored, real or fake, to get the armor bonus for that location. If one only has a loin cloth that, according to the current armor location rules does not qualify as any location of armor.

2. At WH they had that if your armor was properly phys reped that you get a an extra LP for that. If this seems to little than maybe 1 LP per location or maybe 1 CR per location? Or just an overall plus one to Armor points.

[GM_Chris]

We need to keep soak down too but not a bad idea.

[Kalphoenix]

We need to keep soak down too but not a bad idea.

That's my worry and why we changed things before. I am against adding more number soak to the game for "real" armour.

This might be a little on the extreme side, but how about something like a once-an-event evade? You can resist any call (Or just any damage call) once a game for wearing "real" armour.

Or I'd even be for gifting said players with an extra hero point at games they wear the real armour, for improving the immersion of the game.

[GM_Chris]

Good ideas.
We had the ida of giving resist shatter to real stuff
Also, we give a LP out for weaing good looking armor, but take that away if you want to call your good looking armor full plate. (loose 1 LP to get 8cr good tradeoff really)

hmm I will post more as more comes up

[Kalphoenix]

The LP/CR thing still adds more soak though...which is something I REALLY thought we were trying to avoid. I think there are plenty of beneficial things to give someone for wearing real armour other than soak.

I like the resist shatter...multiples over a weekend might not even be a bad idea for "real" armour. It would be especially handy considering I keep hearing that shatter will be more common now.

[GM_Chris]

The LP/CR thing still adds more soak though...which is something I REALLY thought we were trying to avoid. I think there are plenty of beneficial things to give someone for wearing real armour other than soak.

Im not adding more soak. If you have light armor and want to call it heavy, which is currently allowed, then you get 8 soak at the cost of 1 bonus lp. Before we would have probably given both

[Zeira]

My suggestions...

Armor can go up one catagory from the phys rep. (IE Light could be medium but not heavy. This allows people to identify what kind of armor people are using visually.)

Coverage remains the same.

Catagories change.

0-4 Light (A full suit of Light W/Helmet)
5-8 Medium (A full suit of Medium W/Helmet. If you keep it at 5-7 you can't wear a full suit of of Medium armor w/Helmet)
9+ Heavy

If you properly phys rep your armor it provides a bonus. In order to recieve these bonuses your Phys reps must be able to provide you with the bonus. The bonuses stack. (IE if you have medium armor phys rep you would recieve the light and medium armor boon.)

Light Armor Boon = 1 LP
Medium Armor Boon = Once per event you may ignore any call with the word "shatter" that would effect your armor.
Heavy Armor Boon = Once per event you may ignore any one call with a number in it.

[GM_Chris]

More good suggestions

what do you mean you can go up 1 catagory? This works if you are going from real leather and want it to be real medium, but how do you feel about ABS plastic and teh like?

[Daffyd]

While on the subject...

I think Quality Cloth Armor should be removed. It gives the player Light Armor benefits for just wearing Garb (Players already recieve LP for being in costume).


I like Kiel's (Zeira) suggestion about only allowing one category increase.

As for determining what fake armor actually is, ask the player what they intended the armor to be and then correct them if they are out of line with what the GM's feel is correct.

I can see:
Light Armor being anything from a padded cloth gambeson to thin, supple leather.

Medium Armor being any rigid leather, chainmail, or ringmail.

Heavy Armor being any plate or plate and chain combination.

You could also allow layering armor and increase the category by one. So a person wearing a gambeson and chainmail could count it as Heavy.

[Zeira]

Whatever you would consider a light armor phys rep according to these parameters in order.

- Look
- Weight or Hinderence to user
- Use of authenic materials

ABS Plastic can be made to look good, is heavy and restrictive but not made of a period material. It would probably count as medium. As such you would recieve + 1 Lp and you would be able resist one shatter call during the event. If you wanted to count it as Heavy you would lose all your bonuses for authentic armor.

[GM_Chris]

Well to be honest I a not as concerned about "in period material" we are not a reinactment group.

My concern with pastic or other kinf of "fake" armor is it is usually lighter than the real thing. ABS plastic which is the thickest and best quality plastic for armor is considerably lighter than the real thing.

I know i wanted to not really talk about this particular subject I need to in context of the ideas presented. What is a catagory? Do I say "if it looks the part it is the part" or do i have some other criteria to go off of?

[Fionna]

I like Kiel's ideas. I think you should only be able to go up one category (looks like light, but counts as medium, but not heavy). That way you can walk up to a character and guess what type of armor they are wearing. I am also with Stark. I think Quality Cloth armor is stupid (and I have it as Fionna). If you want to count armor, you need to wear something, not just clothing.

Although, I think as long as it looks good, and has the right amount of hindrance, who cares what it is made of.

For example: I wear a vinyl vest I made as my WH character. It is basically the same weight (maybe even heavier) than leather, is enhanced with spots and conchoes. Unless you look at the inside, it looks like leather. Why should I take a hit b/c I chose to save myself a little out of game cash and headache? I would not have been able to sew leather with my sewing machine, but I could sew vinyl. It looks good, is the right weight and hindrance for light armor (if not medium). Why is that not ok?

Let's take Brett's pickle barrel armor he wore as Veralin. It looks like heavy, is as restrictive as plate, but did not cost near what real steel plate would cost. We hit each other with foam weapons, our armor does not need to provide the protection it historically did. If what we are going for is aesthetics, if it looks good who cares what it is made out of.

[GM_Chris]

moving post to my other post specifically on this subject

[Zeira]

Authentic material just means any kind of actual metal or leather.

ABS Plastic like what Brett has is probably the same weight and hinderence as my full plate that is made of mild steel.

Let's use this an example

A pair of thick leather bracers with pauldrens (Medium 2 points)
A Full steel Helmet (3 Points)
A camp foam brestplate (1 point)
Soccer shinguards (1 point)

You would have 7 points of "Real" Armor, allowing you to get +1 LP and the Resist Shatter. Let's say you decide to count your foam bp and shinguards as medium and your leather arms as heavy. You would then have 3 points of "real" armor and you would have 10 AP. You would only recieve the light armor boon of +1 LP.

I will think of a better way to present this.