Personally, I like the read/write skill. I like seeing characters who cannot read be role played. As for other languages besides common, I could see situations where it would be useful, but I could also see it being a bit more difficult to role play in a LARP setting.
In addition to that, does your race have any determination as to what you can read/write/understand i.e. can my common Guthrie w/o read and write understand Guthrie Tradespeak?
Read/Write
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To move the plot point further from NPC camp-
How about two sheets of paper. One has gobbledygook written on it, with the decipher script time and the language it's "written in". Then staple that on top of the second sheet that has the english version of the hint. You can only look at the second sheet if you either decipher it or can speak that language.
Sure, you can cheat like hell, but at least with the gibberish top sheet, it stops people from metagaming if they accidently (or purposefully) "read" it at a simple glance, and it also makes it seem even more 'in game' if you don't cheat, because if you can't read the given language, you literally don't see anything you can "read".
If it's (supposed) to work for potion tags, it should work for read/write pretty well.
I like read/write as well, for the same reason as Chuck. It made me feel a little bit special when I was reading the Caldonian Games flyer out loud in the tavern, and people were actually genuinely surprised that Rhul could read. It added a little bit of unexpected roleplaying. I've actually had people come to Rhul to read something to them in common, so some are playing fairly.
How about two sheets of paper. One has gobbledygook written on it, with the decipher script time and the language it's "written in". Then staple that on top of the second sheet that has the english version of the hint. You can only look at the second sheet if you either decipher it or can speak that language.
Sure, you can cheat like hell, but at least with the gibberish top sheet, it stops people from metagaming if they accidently (or purposefully) "read" it at a simple glance, and it also makes it seem even more 'in game' if you don't cheat, because if you can't read the given language, you literally don't see anything you can "read".
If it's (supposed) to work for potion tags, it should work for read/write pretty well.
I like read/write as well, for the same reason as Chuck. It made me feel a little bit special when I was reading the Caldonian Games flyer out loud in the tavern, and people were actually genuinely surprised that Rhul could read. It added a little bit of unexpected roleplaying. I've actually had people come to Rhul to read something to them in common, so some are playing fairly.
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Jaycen Blackhawk
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Kalphoenix
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I don't disagree that it adds roleplaying. But I'm with Travis that that doesn't mean it HAS to have a mechanic attached to it, just the same as the examples he listed don't have a mechanic attached to it.
I guess the only really good thing about it as a sage is that I can throw it away for a different basic skill and it isn't a difficult choice...but that doesn't help, say, diplomats.
It shouldn't take up a skill-space, is my argument. I've played for around six years, and have NEVER seen it used in plots, EVER. I've seen decipher script used on occasion (maybe once a year or so?), but not read/write. It's not terribly useful between PCs either, since we would have to have a decipherable sheet as well, and there is no rule protecting two PCs conversing in a written language with a decipher sheet. Can't use it to "hide" spells in a spellbook, since they all have to be tagged anyway. Adds the metagaming element staff keeps trying to remove, not just from the decoder, but from the fact that somewhere on the sheet you have to write what language it is. For a real-world example, I have a very hard time telling the difference between most eastern European languages. You might THINK you know what it is, but it's possible you don't and it's really hard for most people to roleplay not knowing what it could be at all. If the sheet says "This is written in Elvish," most people are going to go "Oh, I need to take this to someone who knows Elvish" not "I have no idea what this is written in."
Since taking it out is not really likely, if SPOKEN was officially added to it (which there IS no mechanic for) that, at least I HAVE seen come up before, so it would make it at least marginally useful.
Just my thoughts. Thanks for the feedback.
I guess the only really good thing about it as a sage is that I can throw it away for a different basic skill and it isn't a difficult choice...but that doesn't help, say, diplomats.
It shouldn't take up a skill-space, is my argument. I've played for around six years, and have NEVER seen it used in plots, EVER. I've seen decipher script used on occasion (maybe once a year or so?), but not read/write. It's not terribly useful between PCs either, since we would have to have a decipherable sheet as well, and there is no rule protecting two PCs conversing in a written language with a decipher sheet. Can't use it to "hide" spells in a spellbook, since they all have to be tagged anyway. Adds the metagaming element staff keeps trying to remove, not just from the decoder, but from the fact that somewhere on the sheet you have to write what language it is. For a real-world example, I have a very hard time telling the difference between most eastern European languages. You might THINK you know what it is, but it's possible you don't and it's really hard for most people to roleplay not knowing what it could be at all. If the sheet says "This is written in Elvish," most people are going to go "Oh, I need to take this to someone who knows Elvish" not "I have no idea what this is written in."
Since taking it out is not really likely, if SPOKEN was officially added to it (which there IS no mechanic for) that, at least I HAVE seen come up before, so it would make it at least marginally useful.
Just my thoughts. Thanks for the feedback.
I just can't get behind spoken languages at a LARP. It is impossible not to metagame. I can definately see the appeal becuase it would be really cool but it doesn't work. It would play out more like this...
PC 1: "In Elven. Do you think we should kill this guy?"
PC 2: "In Elven. Yeah, just wait till we get past those tree's."
PC 3: "What are you guy's talking about?"
PC 1: "Oh nothing"
PC 3: "OK...Well I gotta go do this thing...I'll see you later!" *Runs off*
See how PC 3 tried to act like he didn't hear what PC 1 and 2 said. He was metagaming but tried to play it off like he wasn't. Now PC 1 and PC 2 are pissed because they were totally gonna get that guy but he cheesed his way out of and it's impossible to prove it.
I'm not trying to see the worst in people or anything. It's just like a invisibility skill in a larp, and flying. They are super hard to roleplay.
Anybody who has played a larp with spoken language skills will say that they create more problems than they are worth.
PC 1: "In Elven. Do you think we should kill this guy?"
PC 2: "In Elven. Yeah, just wait till we get past those tree's."
PC 3: "What are you guy's talking about?"
PC 1: "Oh nothing"
PC 3: "OK...Well I gotta go do this thing...I'll see you later!" *Runs off*
See how PC 3 tried to act like he didn't hear what PC 1 and 2 said. He was metagaming but tried to play it off like he wasn't. Now PC 1 and PC 2 are pissed because they were totally gonna get that guy but he cheesed his way out of and it's impossible to prove it.
I'm not trying to see the worst in people or anything. It's just like a invisibility skill in a larp, and flying. They are super hard to roleplay.
Anybody who has played a larp with spoken language skills will say that they create more problems than they are worth.
You've never seen read/write be used? I'm not going to argue that it is a kickin' skill or anything, but this shocks me considering the amount of text that I KNOW gets into game. There have been multiple documents of varying lengths and languages, usually at least once an event and usually more.
I pretty much agree with everything else being said however.
I pretty much agree with everything else being said however.
<ramble mode: on>
I know this sounds really crass, but if read/write isn't making a significant impact on the game, it's the GM's fault (this has no basis on either chapter of the game over the other.
The very nature of our setting makes reading any language (especially those other than common) a HUGE opportunity for introducing/adding to plots, rather than the sometimes too frequent ways that we get right now. Other than a very small number of such plot points that I can think of (two, maybe?), read/write has been delegated to a PC roleplaying mechanic at best.
How many plots (there may indeed be a few, I just never see them) involving bad guys could we get additional info on if search showed that an intercepted messenger had a coded message on them, and then we were able to decipher it, for a simple example. This instead of an NPC just telling us "<insert group name here> just heard something's about to happen, you need to do something".
Or maybe someone we have faith in (an elven representative, a ga'vin tribal leader, etc) sends us a secret message telling us that things are completely different that we think they are from the outside?
While I know there's a ton of skills our characters would know if they were in a real fantasy world (i.e. starting a fire, chopping down a tree, wiping their noses/butts, etc) but knowing how to read in a world without schooling is hugely important. It sets someone aside in the very same way as knowing how to use a bow, being able to use arcane magic, or gaining strength from nature.
I'm not trying to insult any GM's, it's just my opinion. If read/write was taken out of the rulebook, nearly everyone would know every language, because that's the most effective thing as a character. Coding a book in a language other than common, which is a great roleplaying and in-game ability to do, would be (nearly- you could always use real-world gibberish for codes) useless. The same with the relative novelty of being a character that happens to know the in-game language the book is in.
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Mage: Go ahead and steal my spellbook, it's in a language you can't read.
Theif: (laughs) Well, luckily.... I know every language there is, just in time to need it. It's like the Matrix!
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I like only knowing common, because flaws make the character, just as much as abilities. If I find something important in Elven, it adds to the game when I can take it to someone who can read it. It's one of the rules that above most of the others makes the world feel more real.
I know this sounds really crass, but if read/write isn't making a significant impact on the game, it's the GM's fault (this has no basis on either chapter of the game over the other.
The very nature of our setting makes reading any language (especially those other than common) a HUGE opportunity for introducing/adding to plots, rather than the sometimes too frequent ways that we get right now. Other than a very small number of such plot points that I can think of (two, maybe?), read/write has been delegated to a PC roleplaying mechanic at best.
How many plots (there may indeed be a few, I just never see them) involving bad guys could we get additional info on if search showed that an intercepted messenger had a coded message on them, and then we were able to decipher it, for a simple example. This instead of an NPC just telling us "<insert group name here> just heard something's about to happen, you need to do something".
Or maybe someone we have faith in (an elven representative, a ga'vin tribal leader, etc) sends us a secret message telling us that things are completely different that we think they are from the outside?
While I know there's a ton of skills our characters would know if they were in a real fantasy world (i.e. starting a fire, chopping down a tree, wiping their noses/butts, etc) but knowing how to read in a world without schooling is hugely important. It sets someone aside in the very same way as knowing how to use a bow, being able to use arcane magic, or gaining strength from nature.
I'm not trying to insult any GM's, it's just my opinion. If read/write was taken out of the rulebook, nearly everyone would know every language, because that's the most effective thing as a character. Coding a book in a language other than common, which is a great roleplaying and in-game ability to do, would be (nearly- you could always use real-world gibberish for codes) useless. The same with the relative novelty of being a character that happens to know the in-game language the book is in.
--------------
Mage: Go ahead and steal my spellbook, it's in a language you can't read.
Theif: (laughs) Well, luckily.... I know every language there is, just in time to need it. It's like the Matrix!
-------------
I like only knowing common, because flaws make the character, just as much as abilities. If I find something important in Elven, it adds to the game when I can take it to someone who can read it. It's one of the rules that above most of the others makes the world feel more real.
While I don;t doubt you, I think alot of people wouldn't ever know that, Mike- likely because the same people always end up with such things. Otherwise I doubt so many people would think the skill is useless, because they would be using it.There have been multiple documents of varying lengths and languages, usually at least once an event and usually more.
I was about to say the same thing, that people hoard the written work. It is never intended to go the same person every time, but I agree that that likely happens. I'm going to go back over the last couple agendas when I get a spare moment, but I'm guessing that I will find AT LEAST a half a dozen instances of exactly what you are talking about CJ. We throw these types of things in all the time. At times they are a short poem or a short, coded message. At other times, they are entire books (short ones but books nonetheless). I LOVE writing. I am always throwing in word puzzles, puzzles embedded within poetry, and so on. I cannot think of an event in the recent past (and by recent past I'm talking about a couple of years) that did not have something in writing.
I hope this doesn't sound defensive--that's not the intention. I'm just suggesting that more of these things occur than people think. If anyone thinks I am crazy, just try and keep in mind that I write all the agendas, I write most of these things that go in, and often am the NPC that puts them into game, so I do consider myself the authority on the subject.
So, given that, the problem must be either with delineation of said material from us to you or from a PC to everyone else.
Again, I'm not saying the skill isn't weak, necessarily, just that it shocks me that anyone would say the skill is never seen being used.
My two cents
I hope this doesn't sound defensive--that's not the intention. I'm just suggesting that more of these things occur than people think. If anyone thinks I am crazy, just try and keep in mind that I write all the agendas, I write most of these things that go in, and often am the NPC that puts them into game, so I do consider myself the authority on the subject.
So, given that, the problem must be either with delineation of said material from us to you or from a PC to everyone else.
Again, I'm not saying the skill isn't weak, necessarily, just that it shocks me that anyone would say the skill is never seen being used.
My two cents
In my time playing, I can't say that any of my character's ability read/write for something other than common ever came in handy.
Once and only once I used decipher script - back when it took an hour and by that time the people who wanted it deciphered where gone.. must not of been too important then..
There had been one other time for decipher script, but we were able to actually decipher it ourselves before the in game hour it took.
But again - why read/write a PC language (which I don't think I've ever seen anything saying 'this is in Elven/Valkin'Vi/etc..') when you can just pass it to a sage (which usually happens) and they spend only 5 minutes translating it.
So yes.. Mike - if you could incorporate more things written in PC available languages.. I think that would make for more happy players.
Once and only once I used decipher script - back when it took an hour and by that time the people who wanted it deciphered where gone.. must not of been too important then..
There had been one other time for decipher script, but we were able to actually decipher it ourselves before the in game hour it took.
But again - why read/write a PC language (which I don't think I've ever seen anything saying 'this is in Elven/Valkin'Vi/etc..') when you can just pass it to a sage (which usually happens) and they spend only 5 minutes translating it.
So yes.. Mike - if you could incorporate more things written in PC available languages.. I think that would make for more happy players.
I'll vouch for the fact that I have gotten a lot of the written puzzles and letters. I've also gotten poems that fortold plot events and things like that. People usually bring me these things just cause I'm a sage. Anything written is usually brought to a sage because they think there's a "secret code" in it. Usually it's just really good stuff to read.
But remember that in this setting knowledge is just as much a treasure as anything else. As such it is guarded. Talk to Melissa. She has TONS of written stuff. Entire journals, because people bring them to her.
But remember that in this setting knowledge is just as much a treasure as anything else. As such it is guarded. Talk to Melissa. She has TONS of written stuff. Entire journals, because people bring them to her.