Another version of D&D...ggrrr..ggrrr..


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Post Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:43 pm

Another version of D&D...ggrrr..ggrrr..

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Post Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:56 pm

Well, it's interesting that they're going to go the "Open Development" route, following in the footsteps of Pathfinder and White Wolf.

However, 4th Edition began similarly with questioning the players what they wanted as well, then playtesting and the likes.

An article I read, though, gave more insight. An (ex?) WotC employee said that Hasbro wanted all of their properties to make $100M... not just WotC, but their product lines. So WotC looked at what was popular and saw that WoW was going like gangbusters. So they put in motion to create their TTRPG to evolve into an MMORPG. The mechanics of D&D 4th Edition were very MMO because.. well... you buy 4th Edition that you can play on tabletop, but you can also sign up for the online peripherals (DDI and such.) Being able to have your DM create a scene that you can place your figures into puts it into the computer. The next step was to make it more interactive with a minimal combat engine. Finally, with mechanics you're familiar with, it's opened up into an online world and TAH-DAH! You're playing D&DMMORPG! That was going to be their cash cow.

Now, with that apparently abandoned, and Pathfinder grabbing lots of other players away from D&D, WotC has decided it needs to re-route it's path before it goes completely down the drain.
They've hired some good folks, from what I hear, who are old-school and I think that'll help ground it.

My only fear is that folks who are of the "old way" of thinking and gaming never got into 4th and stuck with Pathfinder because it was very similar and made player-suggested fixes to the mechanics. But there is a new generation of TT gamer who is already used to 4th Edition and its ways. Will THEY revolt against 4th Edition for being "Too clumsy/dated/detailed" and old 3.5/Pathfinder players will still not purchase 5th Edition because even though they bitched a blue-streak about 4th Edition, they still were never going to invest in it and won't invest in 5th?

Fortunately, if you like 2nd, 3rd, or 3.5, there are a BAZILLION books out there (WotC or 3rd Party) for supplemental materials if you need them, not to mention the rest of the D20 systems that came out because of the Open Game License.

Honestly, they can make D&D 5th a single-die game with counters and I won't mind because I don't have to play it, and there's 7 other legit editions of D&D to play if I want to stick with the grand-daddy game without going to Pathfinder, Fantasycraft, or the likes.

My guess is that 5th Edition will still follow along many (50%)of the 4th Edition paths, with 25% 3.5/Pathfinder adaptations to fill in what it was "lacking" and include 25% changes that are out of the blue/new just to keep it "fresh and modern." Again, I don't have to play it if I don't feel like it, and it won't hurt me at all if I don't like it.
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I just want to see tomorrow, day by day to just survive. / But this place is built to kill me. No one here gets out alive. ~Alice Cooper "Cold Machines"
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:39 am

I am of similar mindset. I just posted out of the frustration of all old gamers.... here they go another "version" se we have to buy an entire new set of books.

I also have heard of Pathfinder recently but only in relation to 3.0 or 3.5. I assume it is a non WOTC product hevaily based off of D&D?
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"The stupid shall be punished!"
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:27 am

I gave up at 4th, decided they weren't getting anymore of my money.
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:02 am

Wyrmwrath wrote:I am of similar mindset. I just posted out of the frustration of all old gamers.... here they go another "version" se we have to buy an entire new set of books.

I also have heard of Pathfinder recently but only in relation to 3.0 or 3.5. I assume it is a non WOTC product hevaily based off of D&D?


*chuckles* Well... I suppose you only need to buy any "new" versions if you want to play the "latest and greatest", rather than playing the things you're already used to. (Like, back when Drow had heatvision...)

Yeah, Pathfinder basically was a game using WotC's "D20 Open Game License" that allowed anyone to publish a game based on their mechanics. At the time, I think it probably saved the TTRPG industry, but also filled it with a lot of crap. Basically, there were two versions of the license. One of them required the player to use the D&D Player's Guide, and the other allowed a game system to create their own game system using the foundation of the D20 system (this is where Spycraft came from.) When 4th Edition was announced, 3.5 still had a lot of flaws and it looked like WotC was throwing the baby out with the bathwater. So they basically took the entirety of 3.5 and "fixed it" rather than creating a new system.
I've heard a lot of good stuff about Pathfinder, if you're a 3.5 fan.

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game is an evolution of the 3.5 rules set of the world's oldest fantasy roleplaying game, designed using the feedback of tens of thousands of gamers just like you. Players need only the single 576-page Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook to play, while the Game Master who controls the action will also want the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary, a massive tome containing more than 350 fantastic foes for your adventurers to face. The Pathfinder RPG is a fully supported roleplaying game, with regularly released adventure modules, sourcebooks on the fantastic world of Golarion, and complete campaigns in the form of Pathfinder Adventure Paths like Council of Thieves and Kingmaker.

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game has been designed with compatibility with previous editions in mind, so you'll be able to use your existing library of 3.5 products with minimal effort. In fact, the Pathfinder RPG is designed to smooth over a number of the rough spots in the 3.5 rules set, making several existing books even easier to use. On the other hand, the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game contains numerous additional options and exciting new takes on classic character classes and races, infusing the game with a level of excitement that will carry it years into the future.

Since Paizo released the first playtest documents in March of 2008, more than 50,000 gamers have downloaded the rules and posted their feedback, resulting in a year-long open playtest that was the largest in the history of tabletop roleplaying games. Going back to the beginning of third edition, the rules engine that powers the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game has enjoyed more than 10 years of active playtesting and revision, making it the most robust set of fantasy RPG rules ever published.

----- http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG
Arthur Dreese - West Michigan
I just want to see tomorrow, day by day to just survive. / But this place is built to kill me. No one here gets out alive. ~Alice Cooper "Cold Machines"
"Beware the designer who does not design to play his own game." ~Justin Achilli, Vampire: the Masquerade Developer
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:45 pm

I've played pathfinder for a while now, and I like the concept. However, it is a game in which, if you want to spend days making a character, you can make one who at 2-3 level can swing paired bastard swords averaging 25+ damage per hit per blade. It can get retarded really quick.

If you're playing with a group that wants to enjoy the game, that character really sucks the life out of it.

That being said, if you don't have a character like that in your group, the game allows several unique classes, each one with multiple useful builds, and even with the sourcebooks, they are all relatively balanced.
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:59 pm

Pathfinder?

No way. Fantasy craft. Support the little guy. Crafty Games has never made a bad product.
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Post Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:41 pm

3.5 thank you very much ^_^
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Post Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:12 am

I LARP I dont play D&D
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Post Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:28 pm

cole45 wrote:Pathfinder?
No way. Fantasy craft. Support the little guy. Crafty Games has never made a bad product.


Maybe not "Bad" but perhaps "Flawed." Didn't they need to produce a Second Printing of Spycraft 2.0 because it was so terribly laid-out and had other problems? ;-)
Arthur Dreese - West Michigan
I just want to see tomorrow, day by day to just survive. / But this place is built to kill me. No one here gets out alive. ~Alice Cooper "Cold Machines"
"Beware the designer who does not design to play his own game." ~Justin Achilli, Vampire: the Masquerade Developer
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Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:29 am

AEG did that just before they left. The same thing happened to L5r 3rd edition. :)

They have always had a kind of open development that seems trendy now.
Travis Cole

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